WEBVTT

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<v ->Good afternoon here on the East Coast of the US.</v>

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I'm Denise LeBlanc,

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Executive Director of Fuller Craft Museum.

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Welcome to "Excavating Histories:

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"Technique, Research, and Collaboration,"

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our opening programme for the exhibition,

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"Another Crossing: Artists Revisit the Mayflower Voyage."

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Nearly five years in the planning,

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this international exhibition examines the cultural impact

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of this pivotal event on American Indigenous

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and world cultures.

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I'd like to start today's programme

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with a land acknowledgement.

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Fuller Craft Museum gratefully acknowledges

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the Wampanoag, Nipmuck, and Massachuset Nations

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upon whose ancestral homeland we gather.

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We honour and respect all Indigenous people

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connected to this land, originally known as Saukutucket.

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Located in Plymouth County, Fuller Craft recognises

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the waterways, ponds, lakes, ocean, wildlife,

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and other natural resources

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that are an enduring part of this area.

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Indigenous communities have belonged to this land

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for hundreds of generations, and Native populations

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from many nations make their home in this region today.

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Please join us in recognising and honouring

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their ancestors, descendants, elders,

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and all other members of their communities.

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As well, I would like to acknowledge those

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who've contributed to this project.

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We offer boundless thanks to project partners,

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the Plymouth College of Art and The Box, Plymouth, England,

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for their tireless efforts and collaborative spirit

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in developing "Another Crossing:

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"Artists Revisit the Mayflower Voyage."

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Much gratitude is also due to guest curator Glenn Adamson

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for his expert leadership, brilliant curation,

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and steadfast camaraderie.

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At the heart of "Another Crossing"

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are the exhibiting artists who boldly engage

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with this complex and timely exhibition.

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Annette Bellamy,

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Sonya Clark,

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David Clarke,

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Michelle Erickson,

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Jeffrey Gibson, Mississippi Choctaw/Cherokee,

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Jasleen Kaur,

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Christien Meindertsma,

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Jonathan James-Perry, Aquinnah Wampanoag,

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Katie Schwab,

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and Allison Smith.

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"Another Crossing: Artists Revisit the Mayflower Voyage"

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would not be possible without the funding support

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of the Joan Pearson Watkins Trust,

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Princess Yachts,

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Caroline R. Graboys Fund,

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Hamilton Company Charitable Foundation,

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Jonathan Leo Fairbanks Exhibition Fund,

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Plymouth City Council and Arts Council England.

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Much gratitude is also due to programme sponsors

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Plymouth Centre for the Arts, Plymouth 400,

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Pilgrim Hall Museum, and Plymouth Antiquarian Society.

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Another Crossing is also funded in part

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by the following cultural councils,

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Abington, Bridgewater, Brockton, East Bridgewater,

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Foxborough, Halifax, Hanson, Hingham, Holbrook,

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and Mansfield, Middleborough, North Attleborough,

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Norton, Raynham, Scituate, Taunton, and Whitman

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Please do see the chat box

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for additional exhibition collaborators.

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Today's two-hour programme will be moderated

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by guest curator Glenn Adamson

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and feature artists including

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Sonya Clark, Jeffrey Gibson, Allison Smith,

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Christien Meindertsma,

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and collaborator Elizabeth James-Perry.

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Jasleen Kaur, originally scheduled for today's programme,

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is unable to attend.

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Today's moderator, Glenn Adamson,

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is a curator and writer who works at the intersection

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of craft, design history, and contemporary art.

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He has previously been the Director of

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the Museum of Arts and Design, Head of Research at the V&amp;A,

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and Curator at the Chipstone Foundation in Milwaukee.

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He's the co-host of "Design in Dialogue,"

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a weekly online interview series

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co-presented with Friedman Benda Gallery.

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Adamson's publications include, "Fewer, Better Things:

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"Art in the Making," co-authored with Julia Bryan-Wilson,

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"The Invention of Craft:

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"Postmodernism, Style and Subversion,"

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"The Craft Reader," and "Thinking Through Craft."

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He contributes regularly to Art in America,

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Crafts, Frieze, the magazine Antiques,

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and other publications.

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Adamson was the co-curator of "Crafting America"

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at Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art, 2021,

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"Objects: USA," 2020, at the R &amp; Company Gallery,

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"Voulkos: The Breakthrough Years at MAD,"

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Beazley Designs of the Year, 2017,

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at the Design Museum London,

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and "Things of Beauty Growing: British Studio Pottery"

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at the Yale Centre for British Art.

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His biographical study of the artist Lenore Tawney

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is included in the John Michael Kohler Arts Center's

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exhibition catalogue "Mirror of the Universe."

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His book "Craft: An American History"

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was published by Bloomsbury in January of 2021.

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And now please welcome friend and colleague Glenn Adamson.

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<v ->Thank you so much Denise for that super kind introduction.</v>

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And hi everybody, it's great to see you all here.

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Thanks everyone for tuning in as well.

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This is not the end of a journey

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because the journey has always yet to go,

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but boy are we deep into this journey.

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We've been working on this show since 2016 in various ways.

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Of course it was meant to open,

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just to state the blindingly obvious,

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it was meant to actually open on the 400th anniversary

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of the Mayflower voyage, not the 401st,

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but obviously events intervened.

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And so here we are, and now we are

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gathered to have a conversation about this show,

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which, I have to say, has turned out

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to be the most beautiful and moving project

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that I've had the privilege to be involved with,

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curatorially, and that's entirely thanks to all of you

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as our contributing artists.

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So what I'm going to do is share my screen

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and first show you some images of the exhibition itself.

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And then we're gonna hear from each of our

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contributing panellists about the specific body of work

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that they created for the show.

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So here, again, is the artist list.

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And I should say, as you'll see, several of these artists

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also involved collaborators in their projects,

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and they will be acknowledged in due course.

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But when we first started the project,

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these were the 10 folks that I reached out to

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and we invited to be part of the project.

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It's also important to acknowledge

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that in addition to the Fuller Craft Museum,

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we have important partners over in Plymouth, England,

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the other Plymouth, as we tend to call it

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in the New England area.

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And this is of course where the Mayflower

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set out from in 1620.

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And we had the amazing opportunity to

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be hosted by those partners, The Box,

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which is a new museum there in Plymouth

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and also the Plymouth College of Art.

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And they hosted us on the first of two research visits.

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The other research visit was held, of course,

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and hosted by the Fuller, held in Massachusetts.

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So this is a group of the artists

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in that first research visit.

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What we did was to look at historic architecture

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and historical objects and collections and historic homes.

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And more importantly than that, I suppose,

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get to know one another and understand

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each other's vantage points on this event,

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this historical event that we were commemorating.

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I wouldn't say celebrating,

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rather, I would say that this was a historical occurrence

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that had sent massive rippling shock waves through history,

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through space, through time, through culture,

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and we wanted to gain as rich an understanding

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of that as we possibly could.

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And the research visits were absolutely essential

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in achieving that.

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And those of you who might be joining

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in the audience from the UK should know that the exhibition

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will actually open early next year at The Box,

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so it'll be on view in Plymouth across the ocean.

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So, interestingly, the show is travelling

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in the opposite direction

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the one that the Mayflower took.

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This is the show as people now can see it

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in the Fuller Craft Museum.

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As you can see, it's a relatively spare exhibition

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and sort of physical or material palette is somewhat muted.

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And I think one reason for that is the

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somewhat unusual constraint that I placed

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upon the artists who were participating.

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So, really there were only two instructions

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that I offered to the artists.

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One was of course to make it work

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in light of the Mayflower and its history and legacy,

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and impact, and all the implications of that event.

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The second instruction, if you like,

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was a little bit more unreasonable on my part.

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What I asked the artist to do was to

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create a work only using technology

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that existed already in 1620.

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And the reason that I wanted to do this

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was to create a kind of anchor in time

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and also a conversation between

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our moment and that moment 400 years ago.

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But also what I wanted to do was to

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invite the artists off on a kind of research path

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where they would engage with the material realities

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of that moment four centuries ago.

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So what I'm now gonna do is just quickly

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sort of whip around the exhibition

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just so you can have a sense of what it looks like,

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and then I'll briefly talk about each of the artists

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who are not represented on the panel.

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Here you're seeing in the foreground,

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Katie Schwab's welcome map, so called.

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Above the visitor's head is Jonathan James-Perry's mashoon,

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which he thinks of as a kind of rescue vessel.

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And I'll explain that more in a second,

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which is really kind of the heart of the exhibition

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in a lot of ways.

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Over there on the left, you see Allison Smith's work.

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And behind that, the hanging work is by David Clarke.

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A couple more views of these two artists' work.

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On the right-hand side of that first gallery,

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we have Jeffrey Gibson's work,

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which you'll be hearing about in a moment from him directly.

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This is the back gallery,

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and against the back wall is another piece by Katie Schwab.

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It says, "welcome my friends,"

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and that's a piece of text that she got

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from a piece of 17th-century delftware.

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And then in the foreground,

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you have a sort of collaborative project

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that was spearheaded by Annette Bellamy

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working with a group of Indigenous Alaskan artists.

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And behind that, you have Jasleen Kaur's work,

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which I'll show you more in a second.

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These are ceramic vessels, which is a collaboration between

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Michelle Erickson and, again, Jonathan James-Perry,

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who also made the mashoon.

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And here is Jonathan making the mashoon.

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A mashoon is a traditional seagoing vessel,

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waterborne vessel, that's created by felling the tree,

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usually with fire, and then also hollowing out

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the core of the volume of the wood with fire.

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And it's interesting to note that this is

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a much more efficient way of felling and hollowing timber

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than anything that's done with steel tools

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in a European tradition.

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So it's a really good example of how

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Native populations develop their own technologies

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that are entirely analogue, of course, and in very many ways,

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superior to the technologies that were imported

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by settler cultures from Europe.

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As you can see, he then finishes the interior with tools,

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and there you see the mashoon hung

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from the ceiling in the show.

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He's provided it with a paddle

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and also with a series of medicine bundles.

254
00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:34.170
The concept of the work is that

255
00:12:34.170 --> 00:12:36.630
it's meant to serve as a kind of,

256
00:12:36.630 --> 00:12:40.170
as I said earlier, a rescue vessel or a salvage vessel

257
00:12:40.170 --> 00:12:44.280
for the spirits of Wampanoag and other Native people

258
00:12:44.280 --> 00:12:46.920
who were kidnapped and brought to England.

259
00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:49.030
And so the thought here is that

260
00:12:50.760 --> 00:12:52.890
because this object will be travelling to England

261
00:12:52.890 --> 00:12:55.800
and then returning to America,

262
00:12:55.800 --> 00:12:57.630
there was an opportunity there to address

263
00:12:57.630 --> 00:13:01.200
the reverse crossing, not the direction of the Mayflower,

264
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.150
but the reverse crossing of Native people

265
00:13:03.150 --> 00:13:06.660
who were taken against their will to a foreign land

266
00:13:06.660 --> 00:13:10.020
and then not allowed to return to their Native soil.

267
00:13:10.020 --> 00:13:13.710
And therefore their spirits are in some sense not at rest

268
00:13:13.710 --> 00:13:17.160
because they are not present where they should be.

269
00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:20.550
And so this project is an attempt to address that.

270
00:13:20.550 --> 00:13:24.570
And as I've said, in many ways, it serves as a kind of

271
00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:27.180
emotional and intellectual heart of the project.

272
00:13:27.180 --> 00:13:29.760
It's obviously a boat that responds to the image

273
00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:34.740
of the original Mayflower as a waterborne vessel.

274
00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:37.950
But also it's important to acknowledge Jonathan's role

275
00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.910
in the exhibition as somebody who is teaching us,

276
00:13:41.910 --> 00:13:43.770
the rest of us, about Wampanoag history,

277
00:13:43.770 --> 00:13:46.503
about perspectives, spirituality,

278
00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:50.310
and really became a kind of key advisor

279
00:13:50.310 --> 00:13:53.100
to many of the other artists and certainly to myself

280
00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:55.620
and the other members of the curatorial team.

281
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:59.910
So I want to acknowledge his many contributions here.

282
00:13:59.910 --> 00:14:01.890
Really, this is not a project that could have happened

283
00:14:01.890 --> 00:14:03.333
in any sense without him.

284
00:14:04.830 --> 00:14:07.650
Then we have another series of works

285
00:14:07.650 --> 00:14:11.640
that images the boat, the vessel.

286
00:14:11.640 --> 00:14:15.150
This is a project that was initiated by Annette Bellamy,

287
00:14:15.150 --> 00:14:17.940
who is herself a fisherwoman as well as a sculptor,

288
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:21.900
an artist, and spends a lot of time out on the water

289
00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:23.460
fishing for salmon.

290
00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:28.460
And when I invited her, she decided that the most

291
00:14:28.650 --> 00:14:31.710
appropriate way for her to respond to the brief

292
00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:35.220
was to invite six other artists,

293
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:39.030
all of whom are Alaskan Indigenous people,

294
00:14:39.030 --> 00:14:40.680
to contribute their own vessels.

295
00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:45.680
And then Annette also contributed one of her own vessels.

296
00:14:45.990 --> 00:14:48.060
And so this is in a way a kind of

297
00:14:48.060 --> 00:14:49.863
exhibition within an exhibition,

298
00:14:50.790 --> 00:14:52.920
and it tells many stories that are

299
00:14:52.920 --> 00:14:55.110
particular to that part of the world

300
00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:57.180
and the belief systems of that part of the world.

301
00:14:57.180 --> 00:14:59.070
One of the things that we were very

302
00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:03.660
concerned to do in the show, and Annette was really

303
00:15:03.660 --> 00:15:05.700
helpful in thinking this through with me,

304
00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:08.670
was to absolutely not represent Native American culture

305
00:15:08.670 --> 00:15:11.760
as monolithic, which is often done even by

306
00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:15.330
well-meaning institutions and voices

307
00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:17.760
under conditions of white supremacy.

308
00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:20.580
There's a kind of homogenization,

309
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:24.630
and effectively a kind of caricature that occurs,

310
00:15:24.630 --> 00:15:27.630
and so, of course we were very aware that

311
00:15:27.630 --> 00:15:29.550
the Wampanoag community was particularly important

312
00:15:29.550 --> 00:15:31.980
to the story having been the nation

313
00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:35.880
that the Mayflower colonisers encountered.

314
00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:37.980
But we did want to also reflect the perspective

315
00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:39.240
of other Native people who were,

316
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:42.300
of course, affected at greater distance,

317
00:15:42.300 --> 00:15:44.190
but in many cases just as tragically

318
00:15:44.190 --> 00:15:47.250
and to just as great an extent as those who lived

319
00:15:47.250 --> 00:15:50.583
in what we now call New England or was then Patuxet.

320
00:15:51.750 --> 00:15:54.690
This is the work that David Clarke,

321
00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:57.423
a London-based metalsmith, contributed.

322
00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:03.500
It is called Poor Trait, so P-O-O-R T-R-A-I-T, "Poor Trait."

323
00:16:04.050 --> 00:16:07.830
And it takes its oval shape and approximate dimensions

324
00:16:07.830 --> 00:16:11.640
from a portrait that's now in the National Portrait Gallery

325
00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:14.010
of Pocahontas.

326
00:16:14.010 --> 00:16:18.663
So that's the derivation of the elliptical format.

327
00:16:19.530 --> 00:16:22.320
And David thought long and hard about

328
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.670
what he wanted to do for the show,

329
00:16:23.670 --> 00:16:25.380
as all the other artists did,

330
00:16:25.380 --> 00:16:26.940
but he was thinking specifically about

331
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:29.700
his own métier being a metalsmith.

332
00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:31.920
And it occurred to him that the most important role

333
00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:36.900
that metal had in the story was in the context of weaponry,

334
00:16:36.900 --> 00:16:40.080
so guns and shots, bullets.

335
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.240
So what he did was to take

336
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.090
a very large number of lead balls,

337
00:16:45.090 --> 00:16:46.950
pellets, bullets, essentially,

338
00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:51.180
and pound them flat into a linen backing,

339
00:16:51.180 --> 00:16:53.550
which is dyed with ink.

340
00:16:53.550 --> 00:16:55.950
And you can see the incredible detail

341
00:16:55.950 --> 00:16:58.740
of this texture of this object,

342
00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:02.460
and there's a lot of ways you could read this gesture.

343
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:07.460
One way is a kind of anti-portrait of the European coloniser

344
00:17:09.360 --> 00:17:13.800
that reflects the violence of that action back on itself.

345
00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:17.593
You also might think of it as a kind of memorial object,

346
00:17:17.593 --> 00:17:19.680
almost like a gravestone,

347
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:21.420
although the fact that it's hovering

348
00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:22.530
might make you also think of it

349
00:17:22.530 --> 00:17:25.053
as a kind of mirror or portal.

350
00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:28.635
Like I think all the artists' work in the show,

351
00:17:28.635 --> 00:17:32.130
there's a kind of multivalence in this work

352
00:17:32.130 --> 00:17:36.600
and it reflects both the pain and tragedy

353
00:17:36.600 --> 00:17:41.280
of the Mayflower story and also something of its

354
00:17:41.280 --> 00:17:43.830
material solidity and anchoring

355
00:17:43.830 --> 00:17:47.370
of the history that we all inhabit still.

356
00:17:47.370 --> 00:17:51.240
So, you know, I think a very thoughtful and poignant,

357
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:56.240
and in many ways, you know, tough object,

358
00:17:56.326 --> 00:17:59.970
an object that reflects David's own journey

359
00:17:59.970 --> 00:18:01.413
through the project.

360
00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:05.670
Then we have Michelle Erickson, who I have to say,

361
00:18:05.670 --> 00:18:08.340
in a way, she was kind of like a ringer in one regard,

362
00:18:08.340 --> 00:18:11.220
in the sense that her whole career has been based on

363
00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:14.130
the rediscovery of 17th and 18th century

364
00:18:14.130 --> 00:18:15.600
ceramic technologies.

365
00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:19.680
So what she has been doing for years and years

366
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:23.190
is to look very carefully at historical

367
00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:25.050
and archaeological ceramics

368
00:18:25.050 --> 00:18:27.090
and then essentially to reverse engineer them

369
00:18:27.090 --> 00:18:30.390
by making them herself using exactly the same techniques.

370
00:18:30.390 --> 00:18:32.790
And what she did in this case was to go one step further,

371
00:18:32.790 --> 00:18:34.770
because generally speaking, she had always fired

372
00:18:34.770 --> 00:18:37.650
her pieces in an electric or gas kiln.

373
00:18:37.650 --> 00:18:38.700
And what she did in this case

374
00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:40.470
was to use wood-firing techniques,

375
00:18:40.470 --> 00:18:43.410
which of course are much more period appropriate.

376
00:18:43.410 --> 00:18:45.510
It's also interesting to note

377
00:18:45.510 --> 00:18:47.610
the iconography of these works.

378
00:18:47.610 --> 00:18:51.810
So she thought a lot about the history of shells,

379
00:18:51.810 --> 00:18:55.830
both as a medium of exchange and also as a medium of,

380
00:18:55.830 --> 00:19:00.830
or sort of survival remnant of actual foodways.

381
00:19:01.620 --> 00:19:05.130
And, you know, people who know anything about

382
00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:08.550
Native archaeology will know that these shell middens

383
00:19:08.550 --> 00:19:12.375
are often the kind of key indicators

384
00:19:12.375 --> 00:19:14.220
of a large Native community having existed

385
00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:15.450
somewhere in the past when they've

386
00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:17.430
been displaced off of that land.

387
00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:22.430
So the use of these shells as an emblem on these pots

388
00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:25.110
is very much motivated by that

389
00:19:25.110 --> 00:19:28.080
sense of recapturing presence.

390
00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:31.530
And I should also say that after these images were taken,

391
00:19:31.530 --> 00:19:35.550
Jonathan James-Perry, who again made the mashoon,

392
00:19:35.550 --> 00:19:37.110
made lids for these pieces, although they're

393
00:19:37.110 --> 00:19:38.850
not actually present in these photographs.

394
00:19:38.850 --> 00:19:42.000
So that was another really good example of a collaboration

395
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.940
in the process of putting the show together.

396
00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:47.430
And then we have Katie Schwab,

397
00:19:47.430 --> 00:19:51.000
who made these two gestures of welcome,

398
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.410
one of which is the welcome mat,

399
00:19:52.410 --> 00:19:55.080
which is the first thing that people will encounter

400
00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:57.153
when they enter the main gallery.

401
00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:00.870
The other is this piece, as I said before,

402
00:20:00.870 --> 00:20:02.250
that says, "welcome my friends."

403
00:20:02.250 --> 00:20:05.070
And these are the, this is a closeup of the nails.

404
00:20:05.070 --> 00:20:07.890
This is hundreds and hundreds of hand-wrought nails,

405
00:20:07.890 --> 00:20:10.890
an incredible amount of work, an incredible amount of labour.

406
00:20:10.890 --> 00:20:15.890
And then, you know, you can almost hear this sculpture,

407
00:20:16.110 --> 00:20:19.380
you can hear the banging of it being put into the wall

408
00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:21.600
and think about that as a gesture.

409
00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:25.350
Of course, it reflects or suggests an idea of building,

410
00:20:25.350 --> 00:20:27.000
house building, and these are the kinds of nails

411
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.070
that you would've had in,

412
00:20:29.070 --> 00:20:31.290
you know, planking for a 17th-century house

413
00:20:31.290 --> 00:20:33.240
or maybe even a piece of furniture.

414
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:34.470
You know, putting a drawer together

415
00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:36.093
inside a chest, for example.

416
00:20:37.260 --> 00:20:39.600
But you also might think perhaps even of,

417
00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:41.970
you know, Christ being nailed to the cross,

418
00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.600
certainly the idea of these sharp metal objects

419
00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:49.380
penetrating this surface, which reflects,

420
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:53.250
I think, also on the kind of physical dynamics

421
00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:55.590
of David Clarke's piece.

422
00:20:55.590 --> 00:20:57.630
There seems to be an idea here of a kind of

423
00:20:57.630 --> 00:21:02.250
echo of invasion or defacement.

424
00:21:02.250 --> 00:21:05.180
And so, you know, the piece,

425
00:21:05.180 --> 00:21:09.120
the message of the piece, offering this idea of welcome,

426
00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:11.730
but then in fact being made of this materiality, that again,

427
00:21:11.730 --> 00:21:14.790
is so multivalent and has a kind of violence built into it,

428
00:21:14.790 --> 00:21:16.533
I find incredibly moving.

429
00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:22.650
And, you know, as a gesture anchoring the back of the show,

430
00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:24.810
sort of the end of the show, if you like,

431
00:21:24.810 --> 00:21:27.810
this idea of a welcome that was, you know,

432
00:21:27.810 --> 00:21:30.390
offered in many cases by the Native Americans

433
00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:33.480
who lived here and then was of course exploited

434
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.523
subsequently by the colonisers.

435
00:21:36.510 --> 00:21:39.990
And the degree to which we could still offer one another

436
00:21:39.990 --> 00:21:43.410
a gesture of welcome in a way that's justifiable or not,

437
00:21:43.410 --> 00:21:47.190
I find extremely suggestive and really worth meditating on.

438
00:21:47.190 --> 00:21:51.063
So, to me, it's a really fitting conclusion to the show.

439
00:21:52.050 --> 00:21:54.570
And then we had hoped to have Jasleen Kaur

440
00:21:54.570 --> 00:21:56.820
here today on the panel, but she wasn't able to join us,

441
00:21:56.820 --> 00:21:59.250
but I will show you her work, of course.

442
00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:01.650
She, again, collaborated with another artist,

443
00:22:01.650 --> 00:22:04.740
Eleanor Lakelin, who's a British-based wood carver,

444
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:06.813
to make these two objects, which,

445
00:22:07.770 --> 00:22:09.570
you know, offer themselves as symbols

446
00:22:09.570 --> 00:22:11.010
of the Mayflower story.

447
00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:12.450
There's the boat itself, on the right,

448
00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:13.890
then, of course, the turkey,

449
00:22:13.890 --> 00:22:18.210
which is from the myth of the first Thanksgiving,

450
00:22:18.210 --> 00:22:21.900
you know, which is, again, largely fictitious,

451
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:25.440
but, again, sort of connects to this idea

452
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.450
of welcoming or hospitality.

453
00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:29.310
And then what she did, here's some details

454
00:22:29.310 --> 00:22:31.980
of the woodwork of these two pieces,

455
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:34.000
what she did was to put an infuser

456
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:39.540
inside these objects so that they're smoking perpetually,

457
00:22:39.540 --> 00:22:42.540
the turkey in this kind of hilariously rude way.

458
00:22:42.540 --> 00:22:43.770
So a little note of comedy

459
00:22:43.770 --> 00:22:46.590
in what's otherwise a rather serious show.

460
00:22:46.590 --> 00:22:48.090
And again, there's lots of ways

461
00:22:48.090 --> 00:22:50.310
you could understand this gesture.

462
00:22:50.310 --> 00:22:52.410
Certainly it suggests a kind of ephemerality,

463
00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:56.400
maybe a sort of inner destruction, a burning away.

464
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:57.960
But it's interesting to think about

465
00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:00.903
this idea of burning in relation to the mashoon,

466
00:23:00.903 --> 00:23:04.173
and that is a kind of generative sort of burning out,

467
00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:07.200
you know, fire as a tool,

468
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.280
fire as a way of making a functional object.

469
00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:16.260
And here you have this, you know, fictitious smoke.

470
00:23:16.260 --> 00:23:17.977
It makes you think of that saying,

471
00:23:17.977 --> 00:23:19.440
"where there's smoke, there's fire,"

472
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.660
you know, so kind of an indication of something.

473
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:23.633
And I think of all the artists in the project,

474
00:23:23.633 --> 00:23:27.150
Jasleen was probably the one who was most interested in

475
00:23:27.150 --> 00:23:31.350
the way that the Mayflower has come down as a legend

476
00:23:31.350 --> 00:23:34.290
and something that's been replicated over and over again

477
00:23:34.290 --> 00:23:39.290
in the history-making, the imagination, really, of America.

478
00:23:39.780 --> 00:23:42.270
And again, something that we always think about

479
00:23:42.270 --> 00:23:45.730
on Thanksgiving, or, you know, as we might instead call it

480
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:48.600
the National Day of Mourning,

481
00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:51.993
which is what many Indigenous communities call that day.

482
00:23:53.070 --> 00:23:55.890
So, she's really engaging with that

483
00:23:55.890 --> 00:23:58.830
whole symbolic register of the Mayflower story.

484
00:23:58.830 --> 00:24:01.500
And it, this is the last thing I'll say before turning over

485
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:03.690
to the first of our artists, Sonya Clark,

486
00:24:03.690 --> 00:24:05.610
one of the things that we were thinking about a lot

487
00:24:05.610 --> 00:24:08.910
and that we engage with in our study visits,

488
00:24:08.910 --> 00:24:13.290
was that although the Mayflower's centenary in 1720

489
00:24:13.290 --> 00:24:16.260
seems to have passed essentially without being noticed,

490
00:24:16.260 --> 00:24:18.780
already by 1820, it was a big deal,

491
00:24:18.780 --> 00:24:20.520
and it was when Pilgrim Hall was founded,

492
00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:21.690
for example, in Plymouth,

493
00:24:21.690 --> 00:24:24.660
and it was commemorated as a major event

494
00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:27.630
of historical imagination.

495
00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:29.280
And then to an even greater extent,

496
00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:34.280
the 300th anniversary in 1920 was celebrated

497
00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:37.800
as a kind of pageant of nationalism.

498
00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:40.440
Native communities very much not invited,

499
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:43.950
except in a very kind of marginalised and ornamental way.

500
00:24:43.950 --> 00:24:44.783
And, of course, this was right in

501
00:24:44.783 --> 00:24:47.550
the heart of the Colonial Revival, 1920.

502
00:24:47.550 --> 00:24:52.550
So that event was an opportunity for America to celebrate

503
00:24:53.370 --> 00:24:56.220
its own version of itself, I suppose, white America.

504
00:24:56.220 --> 00:25:00.720
And in so many ways, what we wanted to do was create

505
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.680
an event that was another marking of another anniversary,

506
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:09.210
but didn't have that kind of simple celebratory cast to it,

507
00:25:09.210 --> 00:25:12.510
that was instead layered, multidimensional,

508
00:25:12.510 --> 00:25:16.560
that reflected both on the importance of the story

509
00:25:16.560 --> 00:25:19.770
and in some ways the kind of bravery

510
00:25:19.770 --> 00:25:23.430
and remarkable fortitude

511
00:25:23.430 --> 00:25:27.660
and also the ideological conviction of this

512
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.520
group of settlers who came on the Mayflower

513
00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:32.220
at great risk to themselves, of course,

514
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:33.300
and many of them didn't survive

515
00:25:33.300 --> 00:25:37.230
the early years of settlement in Plymouth.

516
00:25:37.230 --> 00:25:39.450
But we also wanted to reflect all the other sides

517
00:25:39.450 --> 00:25:41.550
of that story, particularly the Native perspective,

518
00:25:41.550 --> 00:25:43.380
and really think about the full dimensions

519
00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:46.770
of what the Mayflower voyage has wrought

520
00:25:46.770 --> 00:25:49.320
in our lives down to the present day.

521
00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:51.480
So that's what I'm going to say.

522
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:55.500
And now I have the great pleasure of welcoming Sonya

523
00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:57.630
to the digital stage, Sonya, hello.

524
00:25:57.630 --> 00:26:01.920
<v ->So if you could go to the first slide for me, Glenn,</v>

525
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:02.790
I'd appreciate that.

526
00:26:02.790 --> 00:26:07.170
So, the project that I made for "Another Crossing"

527
00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:08.947
was called, "Power Tools:

528
00:26:08.947 --> 00:26:13.530
"Press, Text, Land, and Language"

529
00:26:13.530 --> 00:26:15.603
And I'm a textile artist.

530
00:26:16.890 --> 00:26:20.760
My roots are deeply, deeply engaged in textiles,

531
00:26:20.760 --> 00:26:24.960
and so, this idea of whenever I work with text,

532
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.470
I am also thinking about textiles.

533
00:26:28.470 --> 00:26:33.300
This is a piece that made me, that was based on some work

534
00:26:33.300 --> 00:26:37.620
that I had done really to interrogate the Roman alphabet,

535
00:26:37.620 --> 00:26:41.760
to interrogate the Roman alphabet as a kind of

536
00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:44.490
Euro centricity and white supremacy,

537
00:26:44.490 --> 00:26:48.540
a tool of white supremacy that almost becomes invisible

538
00:26:48.540 --> 00:26:51.840
in the same way that whiteness often becomes invisible.

539
00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:55.230
And knowing that the press, a printing press,

540
00:26:55.230 --> 00:26:57.780
was one of the things that was carried in,

541
00:26:57.780 --> 00:27:02.130
on the Mayflower to these Indigenous lands.

542
00:27:02.130 --> 00:27:04.860
So I was thinking about those things.

543
00:27:04.860 --> 00:27:09.090
Prior to Glenn asking me to be part of this exhibit,

544
00:27:09.090 --> 00:27:13.950
I had interrogated the Roman alphabet by making

545
00:27:13.950 --> 00:27:18.950
a script that was based on the Roman alphabet,

546
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:23.010
but really based on the curl pattern of my hair,

547
00:27:23.010 --> 00:27:24.930
that is to say based on the curl pattern

548
00:27:24.930 --> 00:27:27.930
of a person of African descents hair.

549
00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:32.430
And I was thinking about how Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, in 1986,

550
00:27:32.430 --> 00:27:35.640
in his book, "Decolonising the Mind,"

551
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:40.640
was engaging African Indigenous authors

552
00:27:40.650 --> 00:27:43.200
to write in their own native languages,

553
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.990
that is to hold the wisdoms that were held

554
00:27:45.990 --> 00:27:48.870
in their own native languages and not to write

555
00:27:48.870 --> 00:27:51.333
in the languages of the coloniser.

556
00:27:52.470 --> 00:27:56.130
As a student, when I read that book in the '80s,

557
00:27:56.130 --> 00:27:59.160
this meant a lot to me, but then I also realised

558
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:01.680
that when people wrote in the Indigenous languages,

559
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:06.030
often they would still be using the coloniser

560
00:28:06.030 --> 00:28:10.590
or the Eurocentric script of the Roman alphabet.

561
00:28:10.590 --> 00:28:12.750
And so that's when Twist came about.

562
00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:16.320
So what you're seeing for the piece, one of the two parts

563
00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.467
of the piece that I made for

564
00:28:17.467 --> 00:28:21.060
"Power Tools: Press, Text, Land, and Language"

565
00:28:21.060 --> 00:28:23.850
are these handmade papers that were made

566
00:28:23.850 --> 00:28:26.043
in collaboration with Mary Hark,

567
00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:31.590
a Minneapolis based and Wisconsin based paper maker.

568
00:28:31.590 --> 00:28:36.270
The papers made out of linen and cotton and also has earth

569
00:28:36.270 --> 00:28:39.810
from what we now call Plymouth, Massachusetts,

570
00:28:39.810 --> 00:28:44.280
but is in fact in the Wampanoag language, Patuxet.

571
00:28:44.280 --> 00:28:47.010
So that's embedded in these handmade papers.

572
00:28:47.010 --> 00:28:49.410
And then the text on the papers,

573
00:28:49.410 --> 00:28:51.423
and you can go to the next slide, Glenn.

574
00:28:52.410 --> 00:28:55.050
So this is, oh, so,

575
00:28:55.050 --> 00:28:57.330
I'll talk about the text on the papers in a moment,

576
00:28:57.330 --> 00:29:02.330
but Glenn's charge to us was to use a technology

577
00:29:02.910 --> 00:29:05.340
that already existed in 1620,

578
00:29:05.340 --> 00:29:09.180
and so I went to hot metal type.

579
00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:14.180
I worked with Ed Rayher at Swamp Press using

580
00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:16.950
the Twist font that I developed.

581
00:29:16.950 --> 00:29:19.980
So this is an A that you see on the left that's printed,

582
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.730
the hot lead type that you see, that Ed cast for me,

583
00:29:23.730 --> 00:29:26.550
a little curl of my own natural hair,

584
00:29:26.550 --> 00:29:28.860
and then the Roman alphabet of the letter A.

585
00:29:28.860 --> 00:29:31.950
And so what you see on the front, on the left hand side

586
00:29:31.950 --> 00:29:34.950
is the letter A as it is in the Twist alphabet

587
00:29:34.950 --> 00:29:36.960
that I developed in partnership,

588
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.630
I mean in collaboration with a graphic designer

589
00:29:39.630 --> 00:29:41.040
by the name of Bo Peng,

590
00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:43.950
and the Roman alphabet letter A on the right.

591
00:29:43.950 --> 00:29:48.090
And then the hot metal type

592
00:29:48.090 --> 00:29:51.180
done in Ed Rayher's...

593
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:53.580
Ed Rayher's Swamp Press.

594
00:29:53.580 --> 00:29:55.590
This opportunity gave me the,

595
00:29:55.590 --> 00:29:58.650
this charge, Glenn's homework for us,

596
00:29:58.650 --> 00:30:01.350
gave me the opportunity to not only have Twist

597
00:30:01.350 --> 00:30:03.930
as a digital font, but to actually make it

598
00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:06.060
into hot metal type.

599
00:30:06.060 --> 00:30:08.583
So here is the whole alphabet, again,

600
00:30:09.510 --> 00:30:11.700
sort of in collaboration with Audre Lorde,

601
00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:14.340
using the master's tools to undo the master's house.

602
00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:18.750
It is a 26-letter alphabet, but in this case,

603
00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:21.240
all of the letters are made again from,

604
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:25.350
based on the curl pattern of an African person's hair.

605
00:30:25.350 --> 00:30:29.610
And so here you see it, you can see this is a lexicon

606
00:30:29.610 --> 00:30:32.100
and this lexicon actually also, or the key,

607
00:30:32.100 --> 00:30:36.690
it also exists in the many pieces that were printed.

608
00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:40.020
And you can go, so just to give you a sense,

609
00:30:40.020 --> 00:30:43.860
the word that's printed at the top says "Twist,"

610
00:30:43.860 --> 00:30:45.900
and then of course the alphabet is there.

611
00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:47.966
And then I went about thinking about

612
00:30:47.966 --> 00:30:50.820
what text I actually wanted to use.

613
00:30:50.820 --> 00:30:55.820
And I was thinking about why those who came over

614
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.070
on the Mayflower brought a printing press,

615
00:30:59.070 --> 00:31:01.290
and one of the reasons that they brought the printing press

616
00:31:01.290 --> 00:31:02.673
was to spread,

617
00:31:04.290 --> 00:31:05.850
spread...

618
00:31:05.850 --> 00:31:09.120
the Word in the Bible.

619
00:31:09.120 --> 00:31:12.740
And so, I went to the Wampanoag Bible, which...

620
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.450
was a Bible written in a King James Version

621
00:31:18.450 --> 00:31:20.610
that had been translated into Wampanoag

622
00:31:20.610 --> 00:31:25.610
and edited by a Wampanoag to make sure that it was correct.

623
00:31:26.580 --> 00:31:29.690
And so I used text from that and printed it

624
00:31:29.690 --> 00:31:31.740
in the Roman alphabet, next slide please.

625
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:35.010
And then I also use text from people like,

626
00:31:35.010 --> 00:31:37.020
this is from Paul Cuffe.

627
00:31:37.020 --> 00:31:40.440
Paul Cuffe was born in Massachusetts,

628
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.190
he was a whaler, an abolitionist, he was of mixed heritage.

629
00:31:44.190 --> 00:31:47.250
His father was Ashanti from West Africa.

630
00:31:47.250 --> 00:31:50.730
His mother was Wampanoag, so he feels like family,

631
00:31:50.730 --> 00:31:55.710
and this felt like a very important text to bring forth.

632
00:31:55.710 --> 00:31:59.610
So you see the, his words are written in the Roman alphabet,

633
00:31:59.610 --> 00:32:02.433
his name is written in Twist, next slide, please.

634
00:32:04.230 --> 00:32:06.420
And then my colleague, Lisa Brooks,

635
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:10.980
who is a brilliant, brilliant Native American scholar,

636
00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:13.950
she is in fact also Native American,

637
00:32:13.950 --> 00:32:17.970
and this is from her book, "The Common Pot."

638
00:32:17.970 --> 00:32:20.550
And I asked Lisa if it was okay if I could

639
00:32:20.550 --> 00:32:23.820
also write her text in in Twist as well.

640
00:32:23.820 --> 00:32:26.310
And she said, "Of course, we're all family."

641
00:32:26.310 --> 00:32:28.740
So I hope you had at least a little bit of time

642
00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:33.740
to read something of this text about how history is formed

643
00:32:33.780 --> 00:32:36.060
and communal history is formed.

644
00:32:36.060 --> 00:32:37.860
I should mention that there are other texts

645
00:32:37.860 --> 00:32:41.763
in that overall shot of the text that you saw,

646
00:32:42.600 --> 00:32:47.583
also from William Apess as well, so that's included.

647
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:52.560
And then finally there is earth that has been gathered

648
00:32:52.560 --> 00:32:56.310
from what we call Plymouth, but is actually Patuxet

649
00:32:56.310 --> 00:32:58.950
and spelling the word Patuxet in earth.

650
00:32:58.950 --> 00:33:02.430
I do note that on in The Boston Globe,

651
00:33:02.430 --> 00:33:06.780
the review of our show mentioned that I had made this piece

652
00:33:06.780 --> 00:33:09.060
thinking that the earth would be erased

653
00:33:09.060 --> 00:33:12.270
or somehow diminished over time.

654
00:33:12.270 --> 00:33:15.720
And I have to say that that was not my intent as an artist.

655
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.810
I like to think that we're older, you know people will say

656
00:33:18.810 --> 00:33:21.660
that something is like as old as dirt.

657
00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:23.790
And so my sense is actually that the earth

658
00:33:23.790 --> 00:33:26.850
holds our histories, not that it doesn't,

659
00:33:26.850 --> 00:33:29.040
not that those histories get erased

660
00:33:29.040 --> 00:33:32.520
or that they disappeared, but in fact that the word

661
00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:36.197
Patuxet, written in the earth of people,

662
00:33:37.083 --> 00:33:41.130
the Wampanoag people, is holding that history,

663
00:33:41.130 --> 00:33:42.759
never letting it go.

664
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:43.592
So, thank you.

665
00:33:43.592 --> 00:33:45.660
<v ->I'm so appreciative that you recognised</v>

666
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:48.270
all of the collaborators, which are both,

667
00:33:48.270 --> 00:33:51.840
I guess I wanna say technical, artistic collaborators

668
00:33:51.840 --> 00:33:53.460
and also intellectual collaborators,

669
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:56.340
and even Paul Cuffe might be construed

670
00:33:56.340 --> 00:33:58.170
to be a collaborator in a sense.

671
00:33:58.170 --> 00:34:01.290
So all of these voices joining in the project,

672
00:34:01.290 --> 00:34:03.060
and it's something that came up

673
00:34:03.060 --> 00:34:04.290
over and over again in the show.

674
00:34:04.290 --> 00:34:06.240
As you said, there's hundreds of people, in a way,

675
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.920
who were reflected in the show.

676
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.080
<v ->Yeah, Glenn, can I say one more thing about that?</v>

677
00:34:10.080 --> 00:34:12.720
I have to say that the conversations that I had

678
00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:15.510
with Jonathan Perry and all of the artists

679
00:34:15.510 --> 00:34:19.140
who were in that first study trip, were just so,

680
00:34:19.140 --> 00:34:23.610
so fruitful for me, and Jonathan's sister, Elizabeth,

681
00:34:23.610 --> 00:34:26.880
is with us today and she has actually brought her wisdom

682
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:28.530
to some of my classes as well.

683
00:34:28.530 --> 00:34:31.260
So I'm really grateful for the generative nature

684
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:33.510
of the creative minds, those both living

685
00:34:33.510 --> 00:34:36.300
and those ancestral and those yet to come.

686
00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:39.420
<v ->Great, thank you so much, Sonya, so Jeffrey.</v>

687
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:40.253
<v ->Thanks for being here,</v>

688
00:34:40.253 --> 00:34:42.570
I haven't seen Sonya and Allison in some time,

689
00:34:42.570 --> 00:34:44.520
so it's really great to see your faces,

690
00:34:45.930 --> 00:34:48.780
and we finally got to show together, so that's good.

691
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:53.790
So yeah, I was really excited when Glenn contacted me.

692
00:34:53.790 --> 00:34:55.800
It's been obviously a wild year for everybody,

693
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:57.690
and unfortunately I haven't been able to take part

694
00:34:57.690 --> 00:35:00.390
in everything to the degree that I would've wanted to,

695
00:35:01.470 --> 00:35:04.260
but it did coincide with some things

696
00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:06.310
that were already going on in the studio.

697
00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:12.170
In 2019, really as an effort to kind of both broaden

698
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.500
the materials that I use in my work, but also to encourage

699
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:21.500
specificity about tribally identified materials,

700
00:35:22.020 --> 00:35:24.240
I started working with river cane

701
00:35:24.240 --> 00:35:28.170
from the southeastern part of the continent,

702
00:35:28.170 --> 00:35:33.170
and basketry is something that I am most familiar with

703
00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:36.300
and weaving from both my mother's tribe,

704
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:38.940
the Cherokee in Oklahoma, and my father's tribe,

705
00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:41.250
the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians.

706
00:35:41.250 --> 00:35:44.010
So that was someplace where I wanted to start immediately,

707
00:35:44.010 --> 00:35:48.240
and then the other material that I wanted to work with,

708
00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:50.970
again, back in 2019, was porcupine quills,

709
00:35:50.970 --> 00:35:54.600
which is sort of a material that

710
00:35:54.600 --> 00:35:57.140
I think I was just scared of.

711
00:35:57.140 --> 00:35:58.380
You know, I just didn't even know how

712
00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:00.840
to begin approaching how to work with porcupine quills.

713
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:03.570
And so, that kicked that off.

714
00:36:03.570 --> 00:36:05.020
We can go to the first slide.

715
00:36:06.977 --> 00:36:10.357
And so, back in 2019 at the exhibition,

716
00:36:10.357 --> 00:36:13.110
"The Anthropophagic Effect" at the New Museum,

717
00:36:13.110 --> 00:36:16.230
was the first time I showed work that used

718
00:36:16.230 --> 00:36:19.080
both river cane and also porcupine quills.

719
00:36:19.080 --> 00:36:22.350
And so when Glenn approached me

720
00:36:22.350 --> 00:36:24.050
with the idea for this exhibition,

721
00:36:25.410 --> 00:36:28.200
I wasn't really thinking so much about

722
00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:32.160
the kind of historic timeline of these materials,

723
00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:34.560
but it gave me an opportunity to think about

724
00:36:34.560 --> 00:36:38.793
what are other things that I could use in my practise.

725
00:36:40.020 --> 00:36:41.610
The amazing thing about, you know,

726
00:36:41.610 --> 00:36:45.180
when I was learning about weaving reeds,

727
00:36:45.180 --> 00:36:47.700
we started with basketry,

728
00:36:47.700 --> 00:36:51.000
and with basketry I was really blown away

729
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.640
by the fact that it's the most sculptural,

730
00:36:53.640 --> 00:36:55.470
it's one of the most sculptural materials

731
00:36:55.470 --> 00:37:00.300
that I've worked with, and how much it is mendable

732
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:04.110
and you can continue adding length,

733
00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:05.790
so you're not actually limited at all

734
00:37:05.790 --> 00:37:08.040
by the length of the reed.

735
00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:13.040
It's sort of a process of attaching and weaving,

736
00:37:13.680 --> 00:37:18.300
but you can really sculpt whatever form you want.

737
00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:21.270
And so what you're looking at here are three masks,

738
00:37:21.270 --> 00:37:24.570
headpieces, and it was kind of a continuation

739
00:37:24.570 --> 00:37:27.510
of the pieces that I showed at the New Museum.

740
00:37:27.510 --> 00:37:31.290
And you can see, any of this could be applied to a basket.

741
00:37:31.290 --> 00:37:32.880
We were working on head forms

742
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:34.950
that we made here in the studio,

743
00:37:34.950 --> 00:37:37.950
and the materials around the eyes

744
00:37:37.950 --> 00:37:40.320
are actually porcupine quills

745
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.260
that have been embedded through birch bark.

746
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.840
So this was all really like an opportunity

747
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.720
for me to just start thinking about, well normally,

748
00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:51.120
you know, I might use like an air dry clay,

749
00:37:51.120 --> 00:37:55.320
what's another material which existed at the time.

750
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:57.120
Birch bark is another thing that

751
00:37:57.120 --> 00:37:59.763
we also began to explore in 2019,

752
00:38:00.600 --> 00:38:03.120
but here it made the perfect kind of

753
00:38:03.120 --> 00:38:07.053
surface for the face, and so,

754
00:38:08.550 --> 00:38:13.170
yeah, it's amazing, the porcupine quills are literally,

755
00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:15.270
there are two holes and then you kind of

756
00:38:15.270 --> 00:38:16.680
stick the porcupine quill in

757
00:38:16.680 --> 00:38:19.410
and it's almost like a staple on the back.

758
00:38:19.410 --> 00:38:22.920
And we were, you know, in the past we worked with

759
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.920
archival adhesives and this time I was talking,

760
00:38:28.410 --> 00:38:32.790
it has to do with the technology of making

761
00:38:32.790 --> 00:38:37.790
water-sealed canoes and working with ash and with resins.

762
00:38:38.100 --> 00:38:40.560
And so, we started working with pine resin

763
00:38:40.560 --> 00:38:44.580
and piñon resin and beeswax, and we learned

764
00:38:44.580 --> 00:38:46.440
how to make different, and this is,

765
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.630
when I say "we," it's me and the studio team

766
00:38:48.630 --> 00:38:51.900
that I work with here, how to make different consistencies

767
00:38:51.900 --> 00:38:55.080
for adhesives using resin and beeswax.

768
00:38:55.080 --> 00:38:57.930
And so that is, everything is adhered

769
00:38:57.930 --> 00:39:01.053
that needed to have adhesive with that combination.

770
00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:04.383
And it's also amazing, it smells incredible.

771
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.430
And we also found that you could add,

772
00:39:08.430 --> 00:39:10.290
I don't think it shows up in these headpieces,

773
00:39:10.290 --> 00:39:12.630
but you can add pigments to it,

774
00:39:12.630 --> 00:39:14.460
and so we did order at the time

775
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:16.620
many different earth pigments, so we realised

776
00:39:16.620 --> 00:39:20.370
we could make adhesives in anywhere from,

777
00:39:20.370 --> 00:39:23.760
you know, reds to greens, blues and yellows very easily,

778
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.360
and so that was really exciting.

779
00:39:26.790 --> 00:39:30.450
The kind of adornment on here

780
00:39:30.450 --> 00:39:32.490
is not just the shape of the headpiece,

781
00:39:32.490 --> 00:39:36.540
but it's also, here we have lapis,

782
00:39:36.540 --> 00:39:39.123
the blue, and jasper.

783
00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:41.483
Let's see, I was just writing this down

784
00:39:41.483 --> 00:39:42.810
to make sure I don't forget,

785
00:39:42.810 --> 00:39:47.370
and I think it's tiger's eye on the bottom.

786
00:39:47.370 --> 00:39:51.060
And, you know, I think the kind of narrative

787
00:39:51.060 --> 00:39:53.470
that I was giving myself was thinking about

788
00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:57.330
how different queer histories have been erased

789
00:39:57.330 --> 00:40:00.030
since contact and the retelling

790
00:40:00.030 --> 00:40:02.460
of the narratives of Indigenous people.

791
00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:06.850
And so, you know, the idea of who are these masks for

792
00:40:08.970 --> 00:40:12.360
kind of coincides with my kind of,

793
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.120
an element of my practise that's about

794
00:40:15.120 --> 00:40:19.620
kind of giving oneself the entitlement to imagine

795
00:40:19.620 --> 00:40:23.430
these gaps in history, or these gaps in the narratives

796
00:40:23.430 --> 00:40:25.080
that we have learned.

797
00:40:25.080 --> 00:40:28.080
And I think it's, because we've been told

798
00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:29.160
what the histories have been,

799
00:40:29.160 --> 00:40:31.650
oftentimes from an archaeological

800
00:40:31.650 --> 00:40:33.450
or anthropological perspective.

801
00:40:33.450 --> 00:40:35.610
From an anthropological perspective,

802
00:40:35.610 --> 00:40:38.870
I think, in many ways, what I see sometimes

803
00:40:38.870 --> 00:40:42.240
is a sort of almost like atrophy of what I refer to

804
00:40:42.240 --> 00:40:44.340
as like an imagination muscle,

805
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:47.220
to kind of like author our own stories.

806
00:40:47.220 --> 00:40:50.970
And so the next step of this project,

807
00:40:50.970 --> 00:40:52.200
well, let me come back to this,

808
00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:53.973
so we'll go to the next slide.

809
00:40:55.950 --> 00:40:57.867
So here's another one, and you know,

810
00:40:57.867 --> 00:41:02.580
when these masks were being created,

811
00:41:02.580 --> 00:41:04.920
I was really just working in process.

812
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:08.730
So what the reed allows you to do is kind of create a form,

813
00:41:08.730 --> 00:41:11.850
put it on somebody, and work very much like sculpturally.

814
00:41:11.850 --> 00:41:14.970
Like let's wrap this back around, let's make these shapes

815
00:41:14.970 --> 00:41:16.500
and to think about them as sculptures.

816
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.230
It's always important to me in my own work,

817
00:41:19.230 --> 00:41:21.990
I appreciate when people work specifically from history,

818
00:41:21.990 --> 00:41:26.130
but in my own work, I think it's always important

819
00:41:26.130 --> 00:41:30.060
to think of myself as a present-day continuation

820
00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:31.050
of these histories.

821
00:41:31.050 --> 00:41:34.830
So not to necessarily recreate something of the past,

822
00:41:34.830 --> 00:41:37.080
or maybe something that I didn't grow up with,

823
00:41:37.080 --> 00:41:39.750
but to use these materials and who I am

824
00:41:39.750 --> 00:41:42.870
to try to make something in the present, right?

825
00:41:42.870 --> 00:41:45.390
And so, for me, thinking about this like

826
00:41:45.390 --> 00:41:48.480
kind of secret society, or maybe not even secret society,

827
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.910
of like queer people having a dinner party

828
00:41:50.910 --> 00:41:52.680
was my jumping off point.

829
00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:54.780
So, what would we wear?

830
00:41:54.780 --> 00:41:59.780
Well, if I was commissioned to make the masks for this meal,

831
00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:03.930
this would be it, and we would be sitting around

832
00:42:03.930 --> 00:42:07.830
eating local foods and pulling some fish up out of the water

833
00:42:07.830 --> 00:42:09.720
and we would be gossiping

834
00:42:09.720 --> 00:42:12.720
and we'd be, I don't know, hatching plans,

835
00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:14.460
but we would be laughing.

836
00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:17.610
I think the idea of joy and humour

837
00:42:17.610 --> 00:42:19.710
and thinking about the queer communities

838
00:42:19.710 --> 00:42:22.200
that I've been a part of during my lifetime,

839
00:42:22.200 --> 00:42:26.100
you know, the craft of humour and the craft of

840
00:42:26.100 --> 00:42:29.130
kind of high conversation and kind of like

841
00:42:29.130 --> 00:42:31.200
moving back and forth across so many things

842
00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:33.000
and the kind of slyness of it,

843
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:34.770
is something that I'd like to think

844
00:42:34.770 --> 00:42:38.580
existed in our Native tongue.

845
00:42:38.580 --> 00:42:41.490
I'd like to think existed in our Native context.

846
00:42:41.490 --> 00:42:45.330
And I'd like to think it's a,

847
00:42:45.330 --> 00:42:50.330
it's a long, long time history of crafting

848
00:42:50.520 --> 00:42:52.620
what I still see today, even with all the changes

849
00:42:52.620 --> 00:42:54.930
in terms of how we think about queerness

850
00:42:54.930 --> 00:42:57.480
from my youth to present.

851
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.150
I still very much appreciate that.

852
00:43:00.150 --> 00:43:02.520
And there's also there its own kind of like

853
00:43:02.520 --> 00:43:07.520
passing down of stories from like elders to young people.

854
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.280
In this one, there's freshwater pearl, turquoise, garnet,

855
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:18.380
abalone, brass, and I believe there's some porcupine quill

856
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:21.780
and then birch bark and reed.

857
00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:25.140
And this is an image, Glenn, did we put more than one in?

858
00:43:25.140 --> 00:43:28.050
So we did what was originally like a photo shoot,

859
00:43:28.050 --> 00:43:30.810
which I like to photograph people in

860
00:43:30.810 --> 00:43:33.270
both the garments and the masks,

861
00:43:33.270 --> 00:43:36.090
as a way of thinking about an artist's kind of biography.

862
00:43:36.090 --> 00:43:37.740
You know, when we think about historians

863
00:43:37.740 --> 00:43:40.470
researching an artist and we get to stumble across,

864
00:43:40.470 --> 00:43:41.790
you know, who did they eat dinner with

865
00:43:41.790 --> 00:43:45.377
and who did they photograph and who was in their studio,

866
00:43:45.377 --> 00:43:47.500
and I work actively to try to bring

867
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:51.390
queer, Indigenous, and people of colour into my life

868
00:43:51.390 --> 00:43:55.440
and hopefully document them having engaged

869
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.620
in my work and in my thinking in hopes that

870
00:43:58.620 --> 00:44:01.740
we're laying the ground for a future

871
00:44:01.740 --> 00:44:04.560
that doesn't have these gaps in terms of

872
00:44:04.560 --> 00:44:06.990
who we are and how we negotiate

873
00:44:06.990 --> 00:44:09.270
and kind of operate in the world.

874
00:44:09.270 --> 00:44:12.840
And so, you know, the only step that we actually

875
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:17.680
didn't get to with these masks had to do with thinking about

876
00:44:18.610 --> 00:44:21.990
of the time period how people would have recorded happening.

877
00:44:21.990 --> 00:44:25.020
So whether it was drawings done by Indigenous people

878
00:44:25.020 --> 00:44:29.070
or even potentially drawn by early colonisers

879
00:44:29.070 --> 00:44:32.520
was another element that I might explore

880
00:44:32.520 --> 00:44:35.160
in the future, people wearing these and then being drawn

881
00:44:35.160 --> 00:44:37.890
in a sort of journalistic way.

882
00:44:37.890 --> 00:44:39.723
But yeah, I'll stop there.

883
00:44:41.160 --> 00:44:45.573
<v ->Okay, so Allison, coming to us from California, is next.</v>

884
00:44:47.430 --> 00:44:49.890
<v ->I wanna just start by expressing my gratitude</v>

885
00:44:49.890 --> 00:44:53.640
to be living and working on unceded Ramaytush Ohlone lands

886
00:44:53.640 --> 00:44:58.350
here in Yelamu, aka San Francisco,

887
00:44:58.350 --> 00:45:01.470
and just to pay respect to local elders

888
00:45:01.470 --> 00:45:04.773
and the spirits of the lands that I'm on.

889
00:45:07.470 --> 00:45:09.990
You know, for many years I had been doing work

890
00:45:09.990 --> 00:45:13.773
around the role of craft in constructions of identity,

891
00:45:14.640 --> 00:45:18.360
the idea of reenactment culture as this performative

892
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:20.690
kind of practise of...

893
00:45:22.740 --> 00:45:26.190
constructing whiteness, masculinity, nationalism.

894
00:45:26.190 --> 00:45:29.370
And I had seen, or sort of theorised,

895
00:45:29.370 --> 00:45:32.160
reenactment culture or living history culture

896
00:45:32.160 --> 00:45:35.310
as this kind of acting out of unresolved cultural trauma

897
00:45:35.310 --> 00:45:37.500
through traditional craft

898
00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:39.540
and a kind of ritualised performance,

899
00:45:39.540 --> 00:45:43.080
this kind of never-ending persistence sort of performance.

900
00:45:43.080 --> 00:45:46.710
So I think I wasn't surprised to get the invitation

901
00:45:46.710 --> 00:45:49.230
to partake in the show, both because of

902
00:45:49.230 --> 00:45:52.290
the historical element and the craft element,

903
00:45:52.290 --> 00:45:56.130
but yet it was probably the most challenging,

904
00:45:56.130 --> 00:45:59.040
you know, prompt that I'd ever received.

905
00:45:59.040 --> 00:46:02.490
And it really just came to me at a time when

906
00:46:02.490 --> 00:46:04.860
a lot of other layers, kind of deeper layers

907
00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:07.980
of accountability in my practise and in my life

908
00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:12.600
had started to emerge, or to converge, I should say,

909
00:46:12.600 --> 00:46:16.470
both trying to seek a deeper connection to the lands I'm on

910
00:46:16.470 --> 00:46:19.410
and the source of all of my materials

911
00:46:19.410 --> 00:46:21.930
and this idea of kind of the vibrancy of matter

912
00:46:21.930 --> 00:46:26.930
and going deeper in terms of my processes and materials,

913
00:46:28.620 --> 00:46:33.540
and just deeper individual work around interrogating

914
00:46:33.540 --> 00:46:37.733
and divesting from white supremacy and decolonization.

915
00:46:39.930 --> 00:46:43.830
I also gave birth to a child with Indigenous roots

916
00:46:43.830 --> 00:46:47.040
from the Sac and Fox Tribal Nation in 2014.

917
00:46:47.040 --> 00:46:50.250
And so my partner Christina and I also have been

918
00:46:50.250 --> 00:46:53.987
trying to understand what it means to

919
00:46:53.987 --> 00:46:56.163
be guardians of his sovereignty.

920
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:00.450
And when the show idea came along,

921
00:47:00.450 --> 00:47:04.200
I think I was already thinking a lot about animism

922
00:47:04.200 --> 00:47:08.520
and this kind of fear of animism that seems

923
00:47:08.520 --> 00:47:13.350
to really come to a head with the sort of proto-capitalist,

924
00:47:13.350 --> 00:47:16.830
just like pre-colonization of

925
00:47:16.830 --> 00:47:20.250
Turtle Island North America, where you start to see

926
00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:22.950
the enclosure of the commons, you see the witch hunts,

927
00:47:22.950 --> 00:47:25.260
you see the monetization of land as resource

928
00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:28.470
alongside the monetization of people as labour.

929
00:47:28.470 --> 00:47:31.980
And so I got really interested in understanding

930
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:36.980
how I could go about a kind of earth reconnection,

931
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:39.690
historical reconnection,

932
00:47:39.690 --> 00:47:42.300
to a time sort of before the troubles.

933
00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:44.520
And so this idea of time travel has always been

934
00:47:44.520 --> 00:47:45.903
really interesting to me.

935
00:47:47.130 --> 00:47:49.083
And I think I've always,

936
00:47:50.040 --> 00:47:52.110
I grew up in a family where there was

937
00:47:52.110 --> 00:47:54.870
a lot of emphasis on ancestor reverence,

938
00:47:54.870 --> 00:47:57.840
of, you know, these ties to the Mayflower,

939
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.510
to early colonisation.

940
00:48:00.510 --> 00:48:03.330
And that was considered kind of a point of pride

941
00:48:03.330 --> 00:48:04.860
and very much participating

942
00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:07.890
in kind of mythologizing narratives.

943
00:48:07.890 --> 00:48:11.049
And I think as a queer kid growing up,

944
00:48:11.049 --> 00:48:14.970
I felt a really intense sense of sort of shame

945
00:48:14.970 --> 00:48:19.800
and, you know, anxiety around that.

946
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.360
And so, in my own practise,

947
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.150
looking at historical reenactment,

948
00:48:24.150 --> 00:48:28.980
I've tried to bring a critical lens to that,

949
00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:33.980
but also a very psychological, you know, sort of,

950
00:48:34.830 --> 00:48:36.870
a desire to understand the psychological

951
00:48:36.870 --> 00:48:39.930
underpinnings of those narratives.

952
00:48:39.930 --> 00:48:43.320
So, I feel like a lot of my work has been motivated

953
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.630
by a sense of accountability

954
00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:47.490
around the harms of my ancestors,

955
00:48:47.490 --> 00:48:50.700
but in this project, I had a chance to really

956
00:48:50.700 --> 00:48:52.863
peel back many, many more layers to that.

957
00:48:53.790 --> 00:48:56.940
So one of the first things that I went about doing

958
00:48:56.940 --> 00:49:00.940
for the project was to kind of reconceptualize

959
00:49:01.830 --> 00:49:05.520
a family tree, like, as I said,

960
00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:09.090
I have a lot of information about ancestors,

961
00:49:09.090 --> 00:49:12.540
and so, I don't know if you can really tell very well

962
00:49:12.540 --> 00:49:17.190
from this image, but essentially I started gathering

963
00:49:17.190 --> 00:49:19.110
all of the information that I had

964
00:49:19.110 --> 00:49:22.380
in order to create a diagram that would show

965
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:26.490
essentially all of the known names of ancestors

966
00:49:26.490 --> 00:49:30.840
going back to cover, what turns out to be 13 generations

967
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:34.770
and 400 years, you know, back to the Mayflower crossing,

968
00:49:34.770 --> 00:49:39.770
in order to kind of arrive at a sort of portrait,

969
00:49:39.870 --> 00:49:43.023
so to speak, of those blood lineages.

970
00:49:44.520 --> 00:49:48.840
And I wonder, okay, so in this image on the right,

971
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:50.430
you see kind of this star formation.

972
00:49:50.430 --> 00:49:52.200
If you were able to see it up close,

973
00:49:52.200 --> 00:49:55.260
or you were able to see the object in the show,

974
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:58.350
you would see this is, you know, all of these known names

975
00:49:58.350 --> 00:50:00.840
starting with myself at the centre.

976
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:03.900
And this is sort of an inversion of the kind of family tree

977
00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:05.610
that I was grown up to revere,

978
00:50:05.610 --> 00:50:08.160
which is this idea of several important people

979
00:50:08.160 --> 00:50:11.910
and then all of their, you know, all of us descendants

980
00:50:11.910 --> 00:50:13.380
kind of coming from them.

981
00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:14.760
But when you reverse that

982
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:16.620
and just go from parents to parents,

983
00:50:16.620 --> 00:50:19.440
you find that there's over, you know, 4,000 people

984
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.460
that needed to get together to make me,

985
00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:27.090
you know, in this life, and so with this chart,

986
00:50:27.090 --> 00:50:31.383
I started to kind of map these various troubles.

987
00:50:32.790 --> 00:50:36.600
So, the threads that you see in this version,

988
00:50:36.600 --> 00:50:38.703
it's printed on linen,

989
00:50:39.660 --> 00:50:41.910
and so I started to try to,

990
00:50:41.910 --> 00:50:44.310
you know, think about this idea of epigenetics

991
00:50:44.310 --> 00:50:49.310
and the way that trauma is carried across generations.

992
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:52.590
And so in my case, in my ancestors' case,

993
00:50:52.590 --> 00:50:56.550
thinking about traumas both inflicted and experienced,

994
00:50:56.550 --> 00:51:00.540
and thinking about this idea of moral injury,

995
00:51:00.540 --> 00:51:02.370
you know, the kind of moral injury

996
00:51:02.370 --> 00:51:05.250
that is its own type of trauma that I feel most,

997
00:51:05.250 --> 00:51:10.160
or many white folks carry, whether or not they try to

998
00:51:11.550 --> 00:51:13.320
look at that specifically.

999
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:18.180
So what you see in these threads here, for example,

1000
00:51:18.180 --> 00:51:21.120
they are used to denote someone who crossed over

1001
00:51:21.120 --> 00:51:22.770
from one culture to another,

1002
00:51:22.770 --> 00:51:25.650
someone who broke with their culture of origin,

1003
00:51:25.650 --> 00:51:27.960
someone who experienced armed conflict

1004
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.270
and its consequences firsthand,

1005
00:51:30.270 --> 00:51:33.183
someone who was charged or suspected of murder,

1006
00:51:34.050 --> 00:51:35.520
someone who owned a plantation,

1007
00:51:35.520 --> 00:51:37.730
or someone responsible for enslavement of others

1008
00:51:37.730 --> 00:51:41.190
or who claimed human beings as property,

1009
00:51:41.190 --> 00:51:42.780
a child who lost a parent before

1010
00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:44.370
the child reached the age of 15,

1011
00:51:44.370 --> 00:51:45.750
or a parent who lost a child

1012
00:51:45.750 --> 00:51:47.793
before the child reached the age of 15,

1013
00:51:48.900 --> 00:51:51.303
people who experienced sudden tragic death.

1014
00:51:52.200 --> 00:51:57.200
You know, all sorts of other kind of criteria.

1015
00:51:57.330 --> 00:51:59.283
And I should say this is ongoing,

1016
00:52:00.180 --> 00:52:03.633
mental illness or incarceration for that,

1017
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.700
as well as rolls, individuals' roles

1018
00:52:08.700 --> 00:52:12.360
as ministers, teachers, police officers, or spies.

1019
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.410
So I mentioned that I've had this long

1020
00:52:16.410 --> 00:52:18.300
kind of connection with traditional craft,

1021
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:22.320
and often I will undertake apprenticeships too.

1022
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:26.430
So again, this show is very perfect for my way of working.

1023
00:52:26.430 --> 00:52:30.228
And in the process of this show,

1024
00:52:30.228 --> 00:52:34.740
I apprenticed with a high priestess of Wicca

1025
00:52:34.740 --> 00:52:38.610
and as well as a priest who specialises

1026
00:52:38.610 --> 00:52:43.080
in this notion of ancestral lineage repair.

1027
00:52:43.080 --> 00:52:46.620
And so some of these objects in the show

1028
00:52:46.620 --> 00:52:48.930
are kind of hearkening to, as I mentioned,

1029
00:52:48.930 --> 00:52:52.860
sort of that idea of witchcraft and animism,

1030
00:52:52.860 --> 00:52:57.150
but also this idea that there's a way of

1031
00:52:57.150 --> 00:53:00.960
using these kinds of objects as magical tools

1032
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:05.280
for personal and collective transformation.

1033
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.630
So a different kind of ritual

1034
00:53:06.630 --> 00:53:08.730
than I was thinking of with reenactment,

1035
00:53:08.730 --> 00:53:12.880
but one sort of infused with that psychosocial quality.

1036
00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:16.110
This is a wand.

1037
00:53:16.110 --> 00:53:18.390
This is actually made from a piece of branch

1038
00:53:18.390 --> 00:53:20.940
that I found at the gravesite

1039
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:25.920
of some of my earliest ancestors in Bicester, in England.

1040
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:27.930
I was thinking of this kind of queer wand

1041
00:53:27.930 --> 00:53:31.740
in which you have this notion of the law of returns,

1042
00:53:31.740 --> 00:53:36.720
this kind of doubling or returning kind of back on itself.

1043
00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:38.640
And this is a double-besom broom.

1044
00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:41.793
So again, thinking about this idea of crossing over,

1045
00:53:42.690 --> 00:53:45.870
another crossing as crossing over between worlds,

1046
00:53:45.870 --> 00:53:48.903
between genders, between timeframes.

1047
00:53:49.860 --> 00:53:53.140
And, you know, this idea of hedge riding

1048
00:53:54.330 --> 00:53:55.560
became really interesting to me.

1049
00:53:55.560 --> 00:53:57.870
So this is a double besom broom.

1050
00:53:57.870 --> 00:54:00.660
The broomstick is made from a branch from the,

1051
00:54:00.660 --> 00:54:03.930
like I said, the gravesite of ancestors

1052
00:54:03.930 --> 00:54:07.510
in Bicester, England, and so essentially I see this as

1053
00:54:08.670 --> 00:54:12.090
a tree that grew from out of the literal blood and bones

1054
00:54:12.090 --> 00:54:15.330
of my ancestors who were buried there in the graveyard.

1055
00:54:15.330 --> 00:54:19.470
And then the bristles for the broom are Mayflower,

1056
00:54:19.470 --> 00:54:24.470
hawthorn from a local creek near where I live now.

1057
00:54:25.110 --> 00:54:28.230
So this is another object that I think of

1058
00:54:28.230 --> 00:54:33.230
as kind of a ritual object for basically using this chart

1059
00:54:33.600 --> 00:54:37.233
for kind of divination practises, or kind of spiritual,

1060
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:39.900
I mean, there are lots of different words for it,

1061
00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:42.810
but essentially a sort of healing process

1062
00:54:42.810 --> 00:54:45.810
where I can go into a kind of meditative space

1063
00:54:45.810 --> 00:54:48.220
to commune or to communicate with these

1064
00:54:49.230 --> 00:54:52.143
troubled ancestors in my lineages.

1065
00:54:53.070 --> 00:54:56.760
So this is called a high bell candlestick.

1066
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.220
And I had seen an image of this object

1067
00:54:59.220 --> 00:55:03.460
that was at auction at Sotheby's

1068
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:08.250
that was from this time period, from right around 1620.

1069
00:55:08.250 --> 00:55:10.290
And I was really fascinated with the idea

1070
00:55:10.290 --> 00:55:13.530
of this candlestick that was also a bell.

1071
00:55:13.530 --> 00:55:17.430
And so I worked with some pewter workers

1072
00:55:17.430 --> 00:55:21.240
in Sheffield, England, which I understand to be

1073
00:55:21.240 --> 00:55:24.120
an area of England known for its metalwork,

1074
00:55:24.120 --> 00:55:26.250
and they were able to create

1075
00:55:26.250 --> 00:55:28.860
kind of a historical reproduction.

1076
00:55:28.860 --> 00:55:30.990
At the last minute when I asked to make sure

1077
00:55:30.990 --> 00:55:33.840
that the clapper, you know, was inside of it,

1078
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:35.880
I realised that the candlestick probably

1079
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:39.450
wasn't originally a bell, but I was so fascinated by that

1080
00:55:39.450 --> 00:55:43.950
that we went ahead with that idea.

1081
00:55:43.950 --> 00:55:45.930
And so, in a kind of ritual practise,

1082
00:55:45.930 --> 00:55:48.450
where you might use a bell to clear energy

1083
00:55:48.450 --> 00:55:51.630
or to call in spirits, or you might use a candle,

1084
00:55:51.630 --> 00:55:55.860
again, to cast spells or wishes or intentions,

1085
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:58.830
or as well as just the use of fire

1086
00:55:58.830 --> 00:56:00.090
to kind of cleanse the space,

1087
00:56:00.090 --> 00:56:02.910
those were things I was thinking about with that object.

1088
00:56:02.910 --> 00:56:05.610
So I'm thinking of this as a summoner,

1089
00:56:05.610 --> 00:56:10.610
and it's to use to contact my summoner line of ancestors.

1090
00:56:10.950 --> 00:56:14.460
And I would say it's an example of a master's tool

1091
00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:17.580
that I'm trying to kind of think of differently.

1092
00:56:17.580 --> 00:56:22.580
And so when I visited the Pilgrim Hall on our research trip

1093
00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:28.340
and I saw Constance Hopkins' hat, and it just so happened,

1094
00:56:28.740 --> 00:56:30.720
there was a lot of serendipity with this project,

1095
00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:33.540
but on that day my sister had let me know that there was

1096
00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:36.810
a connection with our family to the Hopkins family,

1097
00:56:36.810 --> 00:56:38.700
and I immediately saw that hat at Pilgrim Hall

1098
00:56:38.700 --> 00:56:42.030
and I was like, that's my witch hat, like, that's my hat.

1099
00:56:42.030 --> 00:56:44.250
And so for this project,

1100
00:56:44.250 --> 00:56:48.070
I turned a hat block on a lathe

1101
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:51.690
and I worked with a hat maker.

1102
00:56:51.690 --> 00:56:53.340
There's different locations,

1103
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:56.760
but to try to recreate as close as I could,

1104
00:56:56.760 --> 00:57:01.760
Constance Hopkins' hat, and then in the next slide,

1105
00:57:02.640 --> 00:57:04.053
you can see from above,

1106
00:57:04.890 --> 00:57:08.490
in place of the kind of chipped edges of the current hat

1107
00:57:08.490 --> 00:57:10.657
I put in a phrase,

1108
00:57:10.657 --> 00:57:14.700
"Constantly returning to the harms of my ancestors."

1109
00:57:14.700 --> 00:57:17.730
Yeah, so much more to say, and just again,

1110
00:57:17.730 --> 00:57:21.150
just so much gratitude to everyone and to, for this project.

1111
00:57:21.150 --> 00:57:22.380
<v ->Thank you so much, Allison.</v>

1112
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:24.930
You know, that, I don't know if we should call it

1113
00:57:24.930 --> 00:57:27.243
a family tree or a family structure,

1114
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:32.880
but that image seems so resonant to me

1115
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:36.210
in that each of us, of course,

1116
00:57:36.210 --> 00:57:38.010
given time and sufficient information,

1117
00:57:38.010 --> 00:57:39.540
could draw for ourselves

1118
00:57:39.540 --> 00:57:43.170
and it just shows how many adjacencies and contingencies

1119
00:57:43.170 --> 00:57:46.020
you have as a person before you even come into the world.

1120
00:57:47.100 --> 00:57:52.100
And it's just been fascinating to be kind of on the,

1121
00:57:53.130 --> 00:57:55.200
you know, doorstep and listening to you

1122
00:57:55.200 --> 00:57:57.420
as you've gone on this journey of,

1123
00:57:57.420 --> 00:57:59.970
in a way, self-discovery, if I can put it that way,

1124
00:57:59.970 --> 00:58:01.200
and all of these amazing things

1125
00:58:01.200 --> 00:58:02.613
that have happened to you along the way,

1126
00:58:02.613 --> 00:58:04.953
it's almost like the stuff of a novel really,

1127
00:58:06.060 --> 00:58:07.560
you know, going to Plimoth Plantation

1128
00:58:07.560 --> 00:58:09.810
and realising that you were being confronted with

1129
00:58:09.810 --> 00:58:14.550
somebody who was basically portraying your own ancestor,

1130
00:58:14.550 --> 00:58:18.843
you know, complete with costume and period dialogue.

1131
00:58:19.980 --> 00:58:24.213
So it's, yeah, it's been a very sort of wild ride,

1132
00:58:25.410 --> 00:58:26.850
but obviously has resulted in

1133
00:58:26.850 --> 00:58:29.700
really incredible works as well, so thank you.

1134
00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:33.060
Okay, and then finally we have Christien and Elizabeth.

1135
00:58:33.060 --> 00:58:34.341
Hi, Elizabeth.

1136
00:58:34.341 --> 00:58:35.820
(Elizabeth speaking foreign language)

1137
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:37.800
My name is Elizabeth James-Perry.

1138
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:40.860
I'm a tribal member of the Aquinnah Wampanoag Tribe

1139
00:58:40.860 --> 00:58:43.710
on Martha's Vineyard, or Noepe, as we say.

1140
00:58:43.710 --> 00:58:46.560
And I am primarily a shellworker

1141
00:58:46.560 --> 00:58:49.680
and traditional plant grower and processor.

1142
00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:52.320
So I do a lot of textiles, natural dyes.

1143
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:54.780
And my wampum work that you see pictured here

1144
00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:57.120
is really a combination of those two disciplines.

1145
00:58:57.120 --> 00:59:01.530
It's a traditional art form that goes way, way, way back.

1146
00:59:01.530 --> 00:59:04.350
And in addition to using those materials, we also use,

1147
00:59:04.350 --> 00:59:08.640
as you might have inferred from Gibson's talk,

1148
00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:11.640
porcupine quills as well in the Americas for our arts,

1149
00:59:11.640 --> 00:59:13.293
in woven art as well.

1150
00:59:15.510 --> 00:59:19.590
The first engagement I had with the Another Crossing group

1151
00:59:19.590 --> 00:59:23.340
was actually to demonstrate Indigenous arts

1152
00:59:23.340 --> 00:59:26.730
to the group that was coming here to the Fuller Craft Museum

1153
00:59:26.730 --> 00:59:28.950
to do some research and prep for

1154
00:59:28.950 --> 00:59:31.140
designing pieces for this exhibit.

1155
00:59:31.140 --> 00:59:35.220
And I brought my traditional wampum-making tools

1156
00:59:35.220 --> 00:59:38.220
and shell and process and some of my art,

1157
00:59:38.220 --> 00:59:41.610
and very quickly people had questions

1158
00:59:41.610 --> 00:59:45.390
that weren't actually particularly focused on wampum,

1159
00:59:45.390 --> 00:59:47.670
which has a rich tradition on its own

1160
00:59:47.670 --> 00:59:52.050
as a material of ceremony and adornment

1161
00:59:52.050 --> 00:59:56.670
and protection and history and history keeping,

1162
00:59:56.670 --> 00:59:57.990
and memory keeping.

1163
00:59:57.990 --> 01:00:02.430
But the questions were coming from European people

1164
01:00:02.430 --> 01:00:06.610
visiting Massachusetts and other New England states

1165
01:00:08.010 --> 01:00:12.660
about why things are the way they are here.

1166
01:00:12.660 --> 01:00:15.750
Folks were asking me, where are the Native people?

1167
01:00:15.750 --> 01:00:18.780
Why don't I see Indian people all over the place

1168
01:00:18.780 --> 01:00:20.460
when I'm driving around?

1169
01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:22.023
Why don't I see names?

1170
01:00:22.890 --> 01:00:24.210
Why don't I hear the language?

1171
01:00:24.210 --> 01:00:26.190
And I said, well we were colonised

1172
01:00:26.190 --> 01:00:28.320
and it was very effective.

1173
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.020
And I said, there are Native people around.

1174
01:00:31.020 --> 01:00:33.930
However, the reality is sometimes as a Native person,

1175
01:00:33.930 --> 01:00:37.080
even in the 21st century, you pick and choose

1176
01:00:37.080 --> 01:00:41.730
when you are going to bring that identity to the fore.

1177
01:00:41.730 --> 01:00:46.110
And there are situations where it definitely is not an asset

1178
01:00:46.110 --> 01:00:47.760
and you might choose to just keep

1179
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.040
that bit of information to yourself

1180
01:00:50.040 --> 01:00:53.130
and pass as an unusual-looking Italian lady,

1181
01:00:53.130 --> 01:00:54.033
which I've done.

1182
01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:58.200
So the discussion turned into more serious things

1183
01:00:58.200 --> 01:01:03.153
about our shared history as Native people and as Europeans.

1184
01:01:04.140 --> 01:01:06.960
And then we kind of moved around

1185
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:09.240
to materials and sustainability.

1186
01:01:09.240 --> 01:01:12.420
And I talked about being mindful of sourcing,

1187
01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:14.550
and so being real conscious about

1188
01:01:14.550 --> 01:01:17.460
the abundance of the plants that I'm working with.

1189
01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:20.250
And if they're not common anymore, there are things

1190
01:01:20.250 --> 01:01:22.920
that I try to get the seeds for and grow in my properties

1191
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:25.350
that I can not take any from the wild

1192
01:01:25.350 --> 01:01:26.760
when they're getting so rare

1193
01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:28.533
because it's a very developed area.

1194
01:01:30.150 --> 01:01:33.630
Sustainability, let's just say, isn't one of the things

1195
01:01:33.630 --> 01:01:37.230
that was brought with the Pilgrims when they came in 1620.

1196
01:01:37.230 --> 01:01:38.680
I'll just put that out there.

1197
01:01:39.630 --> 01:01:41.760
And so, I try to be really careful,

1198
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:43.350
like a lot of tribal artists,

1199
01:01:43.350 --> 01:01:48.150
and you know, it's about having a relationship with place

1200
01:01:48.150 --> 01:01:51.870
and with materials and with art forms

1201
01:01:51.870 --> 01:01:55.410
that come from tradition but that are not strictly governed,

1202
01:01:55.410 --> 01:01:58.230
you know, so I might try to do creative things

1203
01:01:58.230 --> 01:02:01.830
and instil a piece with my own insight and experience

1204
01:02:01.830 --> 01:02:05.433
and reactions to situations in the moment,

1205
01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:08.340
you know, rather than simply sitting down

1206
01:02:08.340 --> 01:02:12.999
and copying a piece in a collection or an old family piece.

1207
01:02:12.999 --> 01:02:14.040
And so, I'm not sure if there's

1208
01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:17.130
another photo of my current cuff.

1209
01:02:17.130 --> 01:02:18.900
I should have asked.

1210
01:02:18.900 --> 01:02:22.860
<v ->Maybe what we could do is welcome Christien to the screen</v>

1211
01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:24.540
and then Elizabeth, can we get back to you

1212
01:02:24.540 --> 01:02:26.580
after Christien explains her part in the project.

1213
01:02:26.580 --> 01:02:27.420
Does that make sense?

1214
01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:28.470
<v ->Yeah, that's fine, yeah.</v>

1215
01:02:28.470 --> 01:02:30.390
<v Glenn>Okay, let's do that, Christien, hello.</v>

1216
01:02:30.390 --> 01:02:32.490
<v ->Yeah, so I...</v>

1217
01:02:32.490 --> 01:02:35.310
We went on two research trips, I have to say.

1218
01:02:35.310 --> 01:02:37.230
The first one was to the UK

1219
01:02:37.230 --> 01:02:39.180
and the second one was to the US,

1220
01:02:39.180 --> 01:02:43.080
and to explain a later-on conversation with Elizabeth,

1221
01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:47.400
I must talk about one of the conversations with the artists

1222
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:51.600
I had with the whole group at breakfast in the UK,

1223
01:02:51.600 --> 01:02:54.300
because it was very much about ancestry.

1224
01:02:54.300 --> 01:02:58.080
And I was saying, well, it was quite an intense discussion

1225
01:02:58.080 --> 01:03:02.880
where I said I didn't feel my Dutchness was very important

1226
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:05.460
or my ancestors were not very much

1227
01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:10.170
a part of my way of working,

1228
01:03:10.170 --> 01:03:14.853
and so people were reacting quite intensely to that.

1229
01:03:16.229 --> 01:03:17.062
And...

1230
01:03:19.110 --> 01:03:21.660
yeah, I thought it was a really great conversation

1231
01:03:21.660 --> 01:03:23.970
'cause we were really open and honest

1232
01:03:23.970 --> 01:03:26.070
and it felt like I could say that

1233
01:03:26.070 --> 01:03:30.360
and I felt like there's something wrong about how I'm,

1234
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:32.550
what I'm saying, but it was good to be honest

1235
01:03:32.550 --> 01:03:34.230
because there were reactions, for instance,

1236
01:03:34.230 --> 01:03:37.383
also from Allison, that really sort of hit me.

1237
01:03:39.060 --> 01:03:42.780
And then later on we went to the US and I met Elizabeth,

1238
01:03:42.780 --> 01:03:46.770
and yeah, she showed me the work that is here

1239
01:03:46.770 --> 01:03:49.110
and I was really interested in wampum,

1240
01:03:49.110 --> 01:03:51.090
but understood that that's very much

1241
01:03:51.090 --> 01:03:54.330
not a part of my history, of course.

1242
01:03:54.330 --> 01:03:58.110
And I thought the question was really difficult

1243
01:03:58.110 --> 01:03:59.460
to do something with a craft

1244
01:03:59.460 --> 01:04:02.310
from the 16th, 17th century,

1245
01:04:02.310 --> 01:04:04.980
because working with a Native craft

1246
01:04:04.980 --> 01:04:07.800
would be very strange for me to do.

1247
01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:10.710
But working with a craft from the Netherlands,

1248
01:04:10.710 --> 01:04:13.590
or a material from that time, which I normally do often,

1249
01:04:13.590 --> 01:04:17.280
like linen and wool, would also feel very wrong.

1250
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:20.580
So I was a little bit sort of in between things,

1251
01:04:20.580 --> 01:04:22.260
and then I met Elizabeth and we had

1252
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:24.423
a really, really nice conversation,

1253
01:04:26.640 --> 01:04:29.070
and yeah, I was just really impressed with her work

1254
01:04:29.070 --> 01:04:31.980
and also the conversation and I thought

1255
01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:33.720
this project should really be about

1256
01:04:33.720 --> 01:04:37.170
conversations and talking to each other.

1257
01:04:37.170 --> 01:04:41.640
And then when I came home, I relooked at my photos

1258
01:04:41.640 --> 01:04:43.800
and I saw Elizabeth's cuff again,

1259
01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:46.620
and I noticed the red bead.

1260
01:04:46.620 --> 01:04:48.510
And we went to the Pequot Museum

1261
01:04:48.510 --> 01:04:53.010
and there was a Dutch tradesman in the museum,

1262
01:04:53.010 --> 01:04:55.470
a doll, a really scary Dutch guy

1263
01:04:55.470 --> 01:04:59.670
holding beads in his hand, like really interesting

1264
01:04:59.670 --> 01:05:03.690
because it's like a museum not from a Dutch perspective,

1265
01:05:03.690 --> 01:05:08.010
so it was interesting to see like a really scary person

1266
01:05:08.010 --> 01:05:10.410
because we would, like it's interesting how

1267
01:05:10.410 --> 01:05:12.780
in a Dutch museum, you wouldn't see that.

1268
01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:14.640
But anyway, he was holding these beads,

1269
01:05:14.640 --> 01:05:19.590
and then I started researching and I found out that it's,

1270
01:05:19.590 --> 01:05:22.710
the making of the beads is a technique

1271
01:05:22.710 --> 01:05:25.530
that was invented around 1590.

1272
01:05:25.530 --> 01:05:27.990
And there are beads that were found in Amsterdam

1273
01:05:27.990 --> 01:05:31.023
and in North America from the same strand.

1274
01:05:32.670 --> 01:05:36.903
And this technique is a technique that was invented then,

1275
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:42.920
in Europe, for using as trade with Native people

1276
01:05:42.930 --> 01:05:44.103
all around the world.

1277
01:05:45.330 --> 01:05:48.120
And for me, as a product designer,

1278
01:05:48.120 --> 01:05:49.800
that is really interesting 'cause it's like

1279
01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:52.340
an early example of...

1280
01:05:54.030 --> 01:05:55.680
mass production.

1281
01:05:55.680 --> 01:05:59.010
It's far before the Industrial Revolution,

1282
01:05:59.010 --> 01:06:02.280
and it's like a way to produce loads of beads,

1283
01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:06.330
and I have a feeling that from our history,

1284
01:06:06.330 --> 01:06:08.130
this was very much seen as something

1285
01:06:08.130 --> 01:06:11.490
that is just an object of trade.

1286
01:06:11.490 --> 01:06:13.590
And I feel that we didn't understand

1287
01:06:13.590 --> 01:06:16.860
the value of the object then, and probably we still don't

1288
01:06:16.860 --> 01:06:20.730
because there's been, like, when people talk about beads,

1289
01:06:20.730 --> 01:06:24.153
it's always a bit like as if it's worth nothing,

1290
01:06:25.290 --> 01:06:26.790
just a monetary value,

1291
01:06:26.790 --> 01:06:28.950
and I thought this was so interesting.

1292
01:06:28.950 --> 01:06:33.750
And then I asked Elizabeth if she wanted to join me

1293
01:06:33.750 --> 01:06:38.493
on a research project about the trade route,

1294
01:06:39.660 --> 01:06:44.660
but to also look at what the trade route looks like now,

1295
01:06:44.730 --> 01:06:47.280
because it's still intact, and there's a Czech,

1296
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:50.430
in the Czech Republic, there's a factory

1297
01:06:50.430 --> 01:06:52.380
where the beads are still made.

1298
01:06:52.380 --> 01:06:56.207
And then, yeah, so Elizabeth luckily said yes,

1299
01:06:56.207 --> 01:07:01.050
and we had just really many super interesting conversations,

1300
01:07:01.050 --> 01:07:02.670
which I think is where really

1301
01:07:02.670 --> 01:07:06.120
the value of this project lies.

1302
01:07:06.120 --> 01:07:11.070
And the goal was to make a map of the modern trade route

1303
01:07:11.070 --> 01:07:15.330
of the bead all the way from where it was made

1304
01:07:15.330 --> 01:07:20.010
and the materials it was made from into Elizabeth's cuff.

1305
01:07:20.010 --> 01:07:21.960
Well, we made new things,

1306
01:07:21.960 --> 01:07:24.060
so this was the cuff that it all started with,

1307
01:07:24.060 --> 01:07:25.893
but Elizabeth created a new one.

1308
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:30.420
Yeah, so it was very much about

1309
01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:32.850
how a trade route is formed in the now,

1310
01:07:32.850 --> 01:07:36.150
in a sort of unconnected way,

1311
01:07:36.150 --> 01:07:38.550
because people who are working in the Czech Republic,

1312
01:07:38.550 --> 01:07:40.623
for instance, I met, I went there,

1313
01:07:41.850 --> 01:07:43.380
because we have funding for

1314
01:07:43.380 --> 01:07:45.030
making a film about this project,

1315
01:07:45.030 --> 01:07:47.250
which is kind of stuck because of Corona,

1316
01:07:47.250 --> 01:07:49.740
but we filmed the beginning, and I met a woman

1317
01:07:49.740 --> 01:07:53.460
who was 80 years old and had been stringing beads

1318
01:07:53.460 --> 01:07:56.100
in the Czech Republic since she was seven.

1319
01:07:56.100 --> 01:07:57.720
And so I think it's so interesting

1320
01:07:57.720 --> 01:07:59.100
that all around the route,

1321
01:07:59.100 --> 01:08:03.120
there are people whose lives are made of a part of it,

1322
01:08:03.120 --> 01:08:05.880
but they never meet each other.

1323
01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:10.380
So this project is really about trying to make connections.

1324
01:08:10.380 --> 01:08:13.110
So what this is, is actually, this is not the work,

1325
01:08:13.110 --> 01:08:14.943
it's the packaging of the work.

1326
01:08:16.980 --> 01:08:20.970
I thought the map should not be a fixed map,

1327
01:08:20.970 --> 01:08:23.220
it should be a flexible map.

1328
01:08:23.220 --> 01:08:26.730
And it's a map that is about the route

1329
01:08:26.730 --> 01:08:29.940
that this technique is making through time.

1330
01:08:29.940 --> 01:08:33.483
So for each year there is one bead,

1331
01:08:37.295 --> 01:08:39.300
and they are stuck on a little foot,

1332
01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:42.840
and underneath the foot there is the year.

1333
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:44.670
So if you,

1334
01:08:44.670 --> 01:08:47.520
it's like, the work is like a conversation piece,

1335
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:49.800
because if you would unpack this,

1336
01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:52.110
and Elizabeth and I talked about it, and it was really nice

1337
01:08:52.110 --> 01:08:55.230
because you talk about year numbers,

1338
01:08:55.230 --> 01:08:58.500
then everybody will have a different version

1339
01:08:58.500 --> 01:09:00.360
of what happened in that year.

1340
01:09:00.360 --> 01:09:04.620
And each year from 1590 till now, these beads were traded.

1341
01:09:04.620 --> 01:09:06.483
So I hope very much for the future also

1342
01:09:06.483 --> 01:09:09.480
that this is gonna be a sort of a living work

1343
01:09:09.480 --> 01:09:12.390
that anywhere you can unpack it

1344
01:09:12.390 --> 01:09:17.390
and make a bead route at that spot

1345
01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:21.000
and that we will have many conversations,

1346
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:23.430
Elizabeth and I, of course, but also with people

1347
01:09:23.430 --> 01:09:25.590
talking about different years

1348
01:09:25.590 --> 01:09:27.390
and what happened in those years.

1349
01:09:27.390 --> 01:09:28.860
So here you see the beginning.

1350
01:09:28.860 --> 01:09:32.250
So it's also basically a technique demonstration.

1351
01:09:32.250 --> 01:09:34.140
So you can see the glass being pulled,

1352
01:09:34.140 --> 01:09:37.560
and the first ones are like these rocky shape.

1353
01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:40.020
Yeah, this is how the beads, they are like rounded,

1354
01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:42.600
and they're pulled finer and finer and finer.

1355
01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:46.500
And then finally we end up in Elizabeth's cuff.

1356
01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:49.080
And just one more thing,

1357
01:09:49.080 --> 01:09:51.690
and then I will give the word back to Elizabeth.

1358
01:09:51.690 --> 01:09:56.557
One day, just really randomly, Elizabeth emailed me,

1359
01:09:56.557 --> 01:10:00.870
"Does the word 'Texel' mean anything to you?"

1360
01:10:00.870 --> 01:10:03.870
And I was like, it just came out of nowhere.

1361
01:10:03.870 --> 01:10:06.210
And I was like, "Texel?"

1362
01:10:06.210 --> 01:10:08.970
Like I have sons, but if I would've had a daughter,

1363
01:10:08.970 --> 01:10:10.480
her name would've been Texel

1364
01:10:11.700 --> 01:10:14.880
because my grandmother comes from Texel.

1365
01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:17.100
And so, yeah, so then again,

1366
01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:18.300
now I give the word to Elizabeth

1367
01:10:18.300 --> 01:10:21.330
so she can explain why she asked about Texel.

1368
01:10:21.330 --> 01:10:25.770
<v ->Yeah, so part of my practise is</v>

1369
01:10:25.770 --> 01:10:28.950
not only listening to oral traditions and family traditions,

1370
01:10:28.950 --> 01:10:30.213
community knowledge,

1371
01:10:31.890 --> 01:10:33.240
working with other Native artists,

1372
01:10:33.240 --> 01:10:35.910
but also doing some research,

1373
01:10:35.910 --> 01:10:37.860
going to archives, going to museums,

1374
01:10:37.860 --> 01:10:41.760
and looking at Eastern collections and rare Eastern objects.

1375
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:45.420
And I have a fascination with maps

1376
01:10:45.420 --> 01:10:48.300
because they often contain interesting bits of information.

1377
01:10:48.300 --> 01:10:52.500
And looking at maps, I found that

1378
01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:55.350
Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket, sometimes they were

1379
01:10:55.350 --> 01:10:57.960
portrayed as the same island or connected.

1380
01:10:57.960 --> 01:10:59.340
Sometimes it was Nantucket,

1381
01:10:59.340 --> 01:11:01.290
sometimes it was just Martha's Vineyard.

1382
01:11:01.290 --> 01:11:06.290
But often in early maps, especially those that were Dutch,

1383
01:11:06.570 --> 01:11:09.450
the island was labelled "Texel."

1384
01:11:09.450 --> 01:11:11.670
But for me that was an interesting puzzle

1385
01:11:11.670 --> 01:11:15.330
because our Indigenous language, Wôpanâak,

1386
01:11:15.330 --> 01:11:18.930
doesn't have any Ls, it doesn't even have any Rs.

1387
01:11:18.930 --> 01:11:22.350
And so I knew that that really wasn't our word

1388
01:11:22.350 --> 01:11:25.350
for any of the communities on the island

1389
01:11:25.350 --> 01:11:28.710
or the island itself, and I was trying to find the origin,

1390
01:11:28.710 --> 01:11:33.710
and so hence my question, and it just cleared a lot up

1391
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:35.550
and it made sense conceptually

1392
01:11:35.550 --> 01:11:38.220
that there's a small island by a mainland

1393
01:11:38.220 --> 01:11:40.530
that's a really convenient stop-off point

1394
01:11:40.530 --> 01:11:43.620
that's distinctive, good places to trade

1395
01:11:43.620 --> 01:11:45.903
and to get supplies as a mariner.

1396
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:51.000
Yeah, it just kind of clicked for me,

1397
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:54.450
and then it added an interesting layer of connection

1398
01:11:54.450 --> 01:11:57.570
and history to our collaborative project as well, I think.

1399
01:11:57.570 --> 01:12:00.450
<v ->Well, that's an amazing coincidence.</v>

1400
01:12:00.450 --> 01:12:02.547
Although in some ways, I think,

1401
01:12:02.547 --> 01:12:05.190
and also thinking back to Allison's map,

1402
01:12:05.190 --> 01:12:07.140
maybe what it suggests is that if people

1403
01:12:07.140 --> 01:12:09.317
start talking to one another,

1404
01:12:09.317 --> 01:12:12.090
in new and different configurations,

1405
01:12:12.090 --> 01:12:15.090
then these kinds of coincidences start to seem more

1406
01:12:15.090 --> 01:12:16.890
like the norm than the exception.

1407
01:12:16.890 --> 01:12:18.510
In other words, we have a lot more connections

1408
01:12:18.510 --> 01:12:21.480
to one another than we know or tend to recognise.

1409
01:12:21.480 --> 01:12:24.230
And in so many ways, that's what this project is about.

1410
01:12:25.140 --> 01:12:27.690
And I really feel like your collaboration with one another,

1411
01:12:27.690 --> 01:12:28.590
Elizabeth and Christien,

1412
01:12:28.590 --> 01:12:32.760
is very much, you know, a pure distillation

1413
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:35.310
of what I hoped would happen in the show.

1414
01:12:35.310 --> 01:12:36.900
And, you know, we've heard so many names,

1415
01:12:36.900 --> 01:12:39.030
in addition to the 10 artists who are involved,

1416
01:12:39.030 --> 01:12:42.060
so many other people have had

1417
01:12:42.060 --> 01:12:44.430
a part to play in this project,

1418
01:12:44.430 --> 01:12:47.400
but your work together has been particularly intense

1419
01:12:47.400 --> 01:12:49.380
and creative and generative,

1420
01:12:49.380 --> 01:12:51.030
and it's just been a marvel to see,

1421
01:12:51.030 --> 01:12:54.150
so thank you both for being involved,

1422
01:12:54.150 --> 01:12:56.790
and it's been such a pleasure to see you work together.

1423
01:12:56.790 --> 01:12:58.980
I did think though it would be great to have

1424
01:12:58.980 --> 01:13:01.410
a little bit of conversation amongst ourselves

1425
01:13:01.410 --> 01:13:04.710
just as a group of artists and one curator

1426
01:13:04.710 --> 01:13:07.170
before we take some questions.

1427
01:13:07.170 --> 01:13:10.770
And I'm sort of inclined to kind of open the floor

1428
01:13:10.770 --> 01:13:12.840
to what you all are thinking at this point,

1429
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:14.940
rather than being more directive than that.

1430
01:13:14.940 --> 01:13:17.190
So each of you have gotten to hear

1431
01:13:17.190 --> 01:13:20.280
probably stuff you didn't know about one another's work

1432
01:13:20.280 --> 01:13:24.480
and the processes that you've each engaged in

1433
01:13:24.480 --> 01:13:25.830
because the last research visit was,

1434
01:13:25.830 --> 01:13:27.420
boy, well over a year ago now

1435
01:13:27.420 --> 01:13:29.370
because of the delays that we've had.

1436
01:13:29.370 --> 01:13:30.750
And we've all, as I've said,

1437
01:13:30.750 --> 01:13:32.550
been on quite a journey together.

1438
01:13:32.550 --> 01:13:36.090
So what are you all thinking now, now that the show is up,

1439
01:13:36.090 --> 01:13:38.493
now that the Mayflower,

1440
01:13:40.080 --> 01:13:42.993
you know, the marking of this anniversary,

1441
01:13:44.010 --> 01:13:47.520
at least our part of it, has been completed at the Fuller?

1442
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:48.360
What are you feeling?

1443
01:13:48.360 --> 01:13:50.190
What are you seeing in each other's works?

1444
01:13:50.190 --> 01:13:52.350
I'd love to know what's on your minds.

1445
01:13:52.350 --> 01:13:54.270
<v ->I mean, I'm happy to say something.</v>

1446
01:13:54.270 --> 01:13:56.340
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's interesting

1447
01:13:56.340 --> 01:14:00.090
because had this exhibition happened in any other time,

1448
01:14:00.090 --> 01:14:02.700
let's say, you know, three or four years ago,

1449
01:14:02.700 --> 01:14:04.770
I might feel really differently.

1450
01:14:04.770 --> 01:14:07.120
But I think the context of just

1451
01:14:07.980 --> 01:14:10.620
global American Western culture

1452
01:14:10.620 --> 01:14:14.373
and all the conversations around race and equity,

1453
01:14:15.210 --> 01:14:16.830
and then, for me personally,

1454
01:14:16.830 --> 01:14:20.313
just Indigeneity on top of that, I feel like it's,

1455
01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:24.450
I, at least in the way that I think about the work

1456
01:14:24.450 --> 01:14:26.820
that I'm drawn to and the work that I hope to make

1457
01:14:26.820 --> 01:14:28.140
and put out in the world,

1458
01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:31.300
it's made it more challenging in a way

1459
01:14:32.190 --> 01:14:35.130
and maybe there's an added layer of responsibility

1460
01:14:35.130 --> 01:14:38.940
to what contributing to these conversations means.

1461
01:14:38.940 --> 01:14:42.330
But also I think feeling responsible to not...

1462
01:14:42.330 --> 01:14:45.000
This is our opportunity to push these conversations

1463
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:47.610
as far forward as we can

1464
01:14:47.610 --> 01:14:50.880
while they're maybe more in the forefront of people's minds

1465
01:14:50.880 --> 01:14:53.463
than I've experienced in the past.

1466
01:14:55.020 --> 01:14:59.370
And also, you know, it's emotionally really kind of like,

1467
01:14:59.370 --> 01:15:02.970
it's difficult to think about these issues

1468
01:15:02.970 --> 01:15:05.490
without there being any real mechanism

1469
01:15:05.490 --> 01:15:08.760
for reparations in many ways.

1470
01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:11.730
And so, I think there's always been this kind of line

1471
01:15:11.730 --> 01:15:15.150
between, you know, political art and art

1472
01:15:15.150 --> 01:15:16.260
and why do we do it

1473
01:15:16.260 --> 01:15:18.240
and why do we take on these larger ideas,

1474
01:15:18.240 --> 01:15:20.460
like what's the final kind of impact?

1475
01:15:20.460 --> 01:15:24.060
And I think also, you know, I have two children

1476
01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:26.853
and I think thinking about kind what,

1477
01:15:28.395 --> 01:15:30.690
how to shift the conversation

1478
01:15:30.690 --> 01:15:34.710
or start a new conversation maybe with new voices

1479
01:15:34.710 --> 01:15:38.730
and to kind of give new voices entitlement

1480
01:15:38.730 --> 01:15:40.323
in that new conversation,

1481
01:15:41.269 --> 01:15:44.190
trying to make work that is maybe

1482
01:15:44.190 --> 01:15:46.050
a new jumping-off point for them,

1483
01:15:46.050 --> 01:15:47.670
so we don't necessarily have to repeat

1484
01:15:47.670 --> 01:15:52.593
the conversations of the last 50 years, would be amazing.

1485
01:15:53.940 --> 01:15:54.833
So I think that that's good.

1486
01:15:54.833 --> 01:15:58.350
I mean, but it is just exhausting, I have to say.

1487
01:15:58.350 --> 01:16:00.120
It's just exhausting, and I know,

1488
01:16:00.120 --> 01:16:03.600
for me, over the last, in particular two years,

1489
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:07.590
having had to sort of step out every now and again

1490
01:16:07.590 --> 01:16:09.997
because I don't always want to be the person going like,

1491
01:16:09.997 --> 01:16:12.414
"But you know," I'm like...

1492
01:16:12.414 --> 01:16:17.040
and so I know right now it was really great to hear,

1493
01:16:17.040 --> 01:16:20.880
you know, I'm familiar with Allison and Sonya's work mostly,

1494
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:23.490
I've known it for probably over a decade at this point,

1495
01:16:23.490 --> 01:16:25.020
certainly with Allison,

1496
01:16:25.020 --> 01:16:28.140
and it's great to see people kind of push these ideas along

1497
01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:31.170
before they were at the forefront of people's minds.

1498
01:16:31.170 --> 01:16:33.150
And Glenn, I would include you in that,

1499
01:16:33.150 --> 01:16:36.750
and Elizabeth and I have not actually had the chance

1500
01:16:36.750 --> 01:16:38.070
to meet each other in person yet,

1501
01:16:38.070 --> 01:16:39.870
but I think there's plenty of opportunity

1502
01:16:39.870 --> 01:16:40.923
for that to happen.

1503
01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:43.890
So yeah, I mean that's one of the things

1504
01:16:43.890 --> 01:16:45.810
I have to say is like, one of the things

1505
01:16:45.810 --> 01:16:49.080
I'm looking around at right now with a lot of institutions

1506
01:16:49.080 --> 01:16:51.453
deciding to focus on these topics,

1507
01:16:54.072 --> 01:16:57.690
at least since my time, let's say in undergrad,

1508
01:16:57.690 --> 01:17:01.230
I've been pushing these ideas in,

1509
01:17:01.230 --> 01:17:04.440
whether it was my professors or museum directors

1510
01:17:04.440 --> 01:17:06.810
or curators or writers,

1511
01:17:06.810 --> 01:17:10.230
and although I'm glad that this is happening,

1512
01:17:10.230 --> 01:17:14.647
I'm also like, did it really take contemporary national,

1513
01:17:16.230 --> 01:17:20.250
global trauma for people to feel the urgency of this?

1514
01:17:20.250 --> 01:17:21.753
And I think that in many ways,

1515
01:17:22.800 --> 01:17:25.170
I hope that that's not the case going forward,

1516
01:17:25.170 --> 01:17:27.930
because in many ways we can be much more proactive

1517
01:17:27.930 --> 01:17:31.983
and effective when the world's not in absolute chaos.

1518
01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:34.580
<v ->Sonya, did you want to jump in?</v>

1519
01:17:35.833 --> 01:17:37.810
<v ->Yeah, I was gonna say 150,000 years</v>

1520
01:17:39.409 --> 01:17:40.620
the beads have been around.

1521
01:17:40.620 --> 01:17:43.890
And again, just another shout-out to Elizabeth

1522
01:17:43.890 --> 01:17:47.670
who came to give a lecture to my beading class

1523
01:17:47.670 --> 01:17:49.770
in the middle of COVID.

1524
01:17:49.770 --> 01:17:52.560
And we, you know, we wanted to, I'm teaching a class,

1525
01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:56.970
it's virtual, but it was, you know, AM students,

1526
01:17:56.970 --> 01:17:58.770
so I said, we have to start here,

1527
01:17:58.770 --> 01:18:01.890
let's just start where we are collectively,

1528
01:18:01.890 --> 01:18:02.880
at least our minds.

1529
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:05.610
And that was, we really appreciated that,

1530
01:18:05.610 --> 01:18:07.410
Elizabeth starting with the bead.

1531
01:18:07.410 --> 01:18:10.080
So I teach a whole class on beadwork,

1532
01:18:10.080 --> 01:18:11.290
and the history of beads

1533
01:18:12.743 --> 01:18:15.420
and I learned so much from Elizabeth,

1534
01:18:15.420 --> 01:18:17.670
was our first visitor, and I thought I knew stuff,

1535
01:18:17.670 --> 01:18:21.330
but, you know, you always find that you know even less

1536
01:18:21.330 --> 01:18:23.093
the more you speak with other people,

1537
01:18:23.940 --> 01:18:25.933
which is a beautiful thing.

1538
01:18:26.850 --> 01:18:29.727
And so I really appreciate seeing everybody's work

1539
01:18:29.727 --> 01:18:33.090
and I also appreciate the sort of generative nature of it.

1540
01:18:33.090 --> 01:18:35.700
But Jeffrey, I wanted to ask you a question about this.

1541
01:18:35.700 --> 01:18:38.100
I just love this, you said something about,

1542
01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:41.130
like the slightness of language

1543
01:18:41.130 --> 01:18:42.780
and the like queering of language,

1544
01:18:42.780 --> 01:18:44.580
but the slightness of language.

1545
01:18:44.580 --> 01:18:46.590
And I was thinking, you know,

1546
01:18:46.590 --> 01:18:49.110
that it's not only just in conversation,

1547
01:18:49.110 --> 01:18:52.747
but also in the way that language is held in objects, right?

1548
01:18:52.747 --> 01:18:55.500
You know, like one of the things,

1549
01:18:55.500 --> 01:18:58.010
and to throw it back to Elizabeth and Christien,

1550
01:18:58.010 --> 01:19:01.500
like one of the things about beads is that they,

1551
01:19:01.500 --> 01:19:03.570
the class I teach is called Talking with Beads,

1552
01:19:03.570 --> 01:19:05.400
because they've been around for so long

1553
01:19:05.400 --> 01:19:08.250
that people actually speak through the material of beads,

1554
01:19:09.420 --> 01:19:12.510
or like code with them or put metaphors in them

1555
01:19:12.510 --> 01:19:14.310
or they become metaphor themselves

1556
01:19:14.310 --> 01:19:15.570
and all of that, you know?

1557
01:19:15.570 --> 01:19:17.460
So I was just thinking about this idea

1558
01:19:17.460 --> 01:19:20.100
of the slightness of the object

1559
01:19:20.100 --> 01:19:23.190
and the slightness of language, as you said that.

1560
01:19:23.190 --> 01:19:25.230
I'm not even sure that you realised that you said that,

1561
01:19:25.230 --> 01:19:28.860
but I wrote it down, I just loved it so much.

1562
01:19:28.860 --> 01:19:30.963
Can you talk a little bit more about that?

1563
01:19:32.580 --> 01:19:35.370
<v ->Well, I mean, I guess for me,</v>

1564
01:19:35.370 --> 01:19:38.070
that really comes out of just sort of like

1565
01:19:38.070 --> 01:19:40.830
what happens when queer people get together

1566
01:19:40.830 --> 01:19:42.870
and like Kiki and just sort of like

1567
01:19:42.870 --> 01:19:45.480
talk smack with each other and like find clever ways

1568
01:19:45.480 --> 01:19:49.473
to sort of both celebrate and mock each other, you know?

1569
01:19:50.670 --> 01:19:52.740
But when I think about it now, it's interesting,

1570
01:19:52.740 --> 01:19:56.160
what it brings up for me is that we do that

1571
01:19:56.160 --> 01:19:59.550
in Western and American culture due to rejection,

1572
01:19:59.550 --> 01:20:01.140
you know, and having to, like,

1573
01:20:01.140 --> 01:20:05.280
being forced to kind of create our own kind of culture

1574
01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:07.650
as an effect of having been rejected.

1575
01:20:07.650 --> 01:20:10.350
And I think, I saw one of the questions about like,

1576
01:20:10.350 --> 01:20:11.940
are there queer people in,

1577
01:20:11.940 --> 01:20:14.460
like, historically within Indigenous communities?

1578
01:20:14.460 --> 01:20:16.770
And, you know, it's interesting because

1579
01:20:16.770 --> 01:20:18.440
like "queer" is a contemporary term, you know,

1580
01:20:18.440 --> 01:20:21.870
and even in my lifetime it's changed radically,

1581
01:20:21.870 --> 01:20:25.800
and most Indigenous nations, you know,

1582
01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:29.700
have their own term for other genders,

1583
01:20:29.700 --> 01:20:33.150
other gender identifications outside of male and female.

1584
01:20:33.150 --> 01:20:37.290
And I don't wanna romanticise the past

1585
01:20:37.290 --> 01:20:39.930
and think that we were wholly embraced,

1586
01:20:39.930 --> 01:20:43.050
because I don't know, you know, we don't know.

1587
01:20:43.050 --> 01:20:45.186
Somebody asked me the other day

1588
01:20:45.186 --> 01:20:47.970
if I could be a time traveller,

1589
01:20:47.970 --> 01:20:50.520
would I like to go in the future or in the past?

1590
01:20:50.520 --> 01:20:52.860
And I said, well, kind of neither,

1591
01:20:52.860 --> 01:20:56.130
because if I went to the future, my greatest hope would be

1592
01:20:56.130 --> 01:20:57.750
that things would've radically changed

1593
01:20:57.750 --> 01:20:59.940
and I could be horribly disappointed.

1594
01:20:59.940 --> 01:21:02.820
And in the past I was like,

1595
01:21:02.820 --> 01:21:05.940
you know, being a queer person with a family,

1596
01:21:05.940 --> 01:21:08.490
who knows what my situation would've been.

1597
01:21:08.490 --> 01:21:13.000
And so maybe five minutes, 500 years ago.

1598
01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:14.040
(Sonya laughing)

1599
01:21:14.040 --> 01:21:14.873
That was like...

1600
01:21:14.873 --> 01:21:18.540
So I don't, I mean, I think language for me,

1601
01:21:18.540 --> 01:21:21.620
you know, my resistance to language for a very long time

1602
01:21:21.620 --> 01:21:25.140
in the beginning of my career was that it presents itself

1603
01:21:25.140 --> 01:21:27.030
and it's used with such authority,

1604
01:21:27.030 --> 01:21:28.980
like we know what it means,

1605
01:21:28.980 --> 01:21:31.260
but in actuality, when it goes out into the world,

1606
01:21:31.260 --> 01:21:34.230
it's very slippery, it's very subjective,

1607
01:21:34.230 --> 01:21:38.460
it's very time-based and very specific to circumstance.

1608
01:21:38.460 --> 01:21:40.500
And that's what I love about it.

1609
01:21:40.500 --> 01:21:42.990
And I think, you know,

1610
01:21:42.990 --> 01:21:44.730
whether it's through rejection or not,

1611
01:21:44.730 --> 01:21:46.440
the queer communities that I've been a part of,

1612
01:21:46.440 --> 01:21:48.810
whether it's in lyrics, poetry,

1613
01:21:48.810 --> 01:21:50.617
you know, James Baldwin, Audre Lorde,

1614
01:21:50.617 --> 01:21:54.273
you know, the language is,

1615
01:21:55.770 --> 01:22:00.232
yeah, it has many, many layers when it's crafted well.

1616
01:22:00.232 --> 01:22:01.380
<v ->Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.</v>

1617
01:22:01.380 --> 01:22:02.373
Yeah, yeah.

1618
01:22:03.240 --> 01:22:04.110
Thank you for that.

1619
01:22:04.110 --> 01:22:06.000
<v ->So we're now at 4:30, and I wonder if we</v>

1620
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:07.530
should take some questions from the audience.

1621
01:22:07.530 --> 01:22:08.640
Would that be a good idea?

1622
01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:10.860
One is for Elizabeth, actually.

1623
01:22:10.860 --> 01:22:13.260
Oh, sorry Elizabeth, you're trying to drink your water.

1624
01:22:13.260 --> 01:22:15.570
Sorry, but someone just wanted to know

1625
01:22:15.570 --> 01:22:18.060
who did that amazing picture on the wall behind you.

1626
01:22:18.060 --> 01:22:20.095
I think we should definitely let them know.

1627
01:22:20.095 --> 01:22:20.928
(Elizabeth laughing)

1628
01:22:20.928 --> 01:22:22.890
<v ->It's Peter Boome.</v>

1629
01:22:22.890 --> 01:22:24.420
He's from the Northwest Coast.

1630
01:22:24.420 --> 01:22:27.270
He is quite a talented printmaker and carver,

1631
01:22:27.270 --> 01:22:28.890
so definitely look him up.

1632
01:22:28.890 --> 01:22:31.140
<v ->And how do you spell his last name, Peter?</v>

1633
01:22:31.140 --> 01:22:33.960
<v ->Boom, B-O-O-M, I believe.</v>

1634
01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:35.250
<v ->Okay.</v>
<v ->I think he...</v>

1635
01:22:36.563 --> 01:22:38.790
Araquin maybe is the name of his gallery,

1636
01:22:38.790 --> 01:22:39.910
something like that.

1637
01:22:39.910 --> 01:22:43.050
<v ->Yeah, okay, and then a question which,</v>

1638
01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:45.697
I guess, maybe would be best answered by Christien is,

1639
01:22:45.697 --> 01:22:47.007
"What are the red beads made of?"

1640
01:22:47.007 --> 01:22:48.210
And the answer is glass,

1641
01:22:48.210 --> 01:22:50.655
but there's a lot more to say than that, of course.

1642
01:22:50.655 --> 01:22:54.300
<v ->Actually we went to the sand mine</v>

1643
01:22:54.300 --> 01:22:56.523
that is very close to the bead factory,

1644
01:22:57.750 --> 01:23:02.750
and we weren't allowed in because Corona had just started.

1645
01:23:02.760 --> 01:23:04.350
So we were standing outside it,

1646
01:23:04.350 --> 01:23:08.340
but then we, our drone could film above it.

1647
01:23:08.340 --> 01:23:11.280
So we have a really beautiful start for the film

1648
01:23:11.280 --> 01:23:14.940
where you can see the trucks taking the sand.

1649
01:23:14.940 --> 01:23:19.110
And the reason for this material is that

1650
01:23:19.110 --> 01:23:22.950
the beads used to be produced in Venice and Amsterdam,

1651
01:23:22.950 --> 01:23:27.950
but because of the sand mines in the Czech Republic,

1652
01:23:28.590 --> 01:23:33.090
as well as trees that they could use for making the glass,

1653
01:23:33.090 --> 01:23:35.520
the production changed.

1654
01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:37.350
So we could see the sand.

1655
01:23:37.350 --> 01:23:38.790
Then they didn't want to tell me

1656
01:23:38.790 --> 01:23:40.440
the ingredients for the colours,

1657
01:23:40.440 --> 01:23:42.180
because they thought Elizabeth and I

1658
01:23:42.180 --> 01:23:43.740
would be very much interested

1659
01:23:43.740 --> 01:23:46.780
in if the redness was still the same

1660
01:23:47.940 --> 01:23:50.280
as it was or where it came from.

1661
01:23:50.280 --> 01:23:55.230
But I had the bead analysed by a Dutch historical centre,

1662
01:23:55.230 --> 01:23:58.500
so they could tell me what was in it.

1663
01:23:58.500 --> 01:24:00.300
So we know the modern beads,

1664
01:24:00.300 --> 01:24:03.870
but it's a totally different recipe,

1665
01:24:03.870 --> 01:24:06.900
and it's, yeah, of course it's slightly changed colour,

1666
01:24:06.900 --> 01:24:09.420
but there are images of the ex...

1667
01:24:09.420 --> 01:24:12.660
Like, when in Amsterdam something is built,

1668
01:24:12.660 --> 01:24:14.793
they sometimes find the old beads.

1669
01:24:15.810 --> 01:24:20.810
They look exactly similar with the red and the white inside.

1670
01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:27.680
And it's really been around for a long time like that.

1671
01:24:28.620 --> 01:24:29.940
<v ->Great, thank you.</v>

1672
01:24:29.940 --> 01:24:31.380
As you can tell, there's a lot of research

1673
01:24:31.380 --> 01:24:32.910
behind that project,

1674
01:24:32.910 --> 01:24:35.040
and indeed, all the projects in the show.

1675
01:24:35.040 --> 01:24:37.170
And that relates to another question that we had,

1676
01:24:37.170 --> 01:24:40.874
which is for Allison and the,

1677
01:24:40.874 --> 01:24:41.910
well it's sort of for you, Allison,

1678
01:24:41.910 --> 01:24:45.277
the question is, "Why can we not do an Allison family graph

1679
01:24:45.277 --> 01:24:47.757
"for everyone who contributed to the project?"

1680
01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:52.170
And I think that might be a good cue to you to explain

1681
01:24:52.170 --> 01:24:54.810
what was involved in putting that graph together,

1682
01:24:54.810 --> 01:24:57.690
because it kind of looks like, oh, you could Google it,

1683
01:24:57.690 --> 01:24:59.730
but that is obviously not the case.

1684
01:24:59.730 --> 01:25:01.710
<v ->I'm still remembering, you know,</v>

1685
01:25:01.710 --> 01:25:03.750
maybe like some of you different collaborators

1686
01:25:03.750 --> 01:25:04.880
that I didn't give credit to.

1687
01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:07.230
So I guess one of the collaborators for this

1688
01:25:07.230 --> 01:25:09.150
would have to be my grandfather,

1689
01:25:09.150 --> 01:25:11.490
my, you know, my grandmother, my sister,

1690
01:25:11.490 --> 01:25:13.770
like people in the family who had started

1691
01:25:13.770 --> 01:25:16.023
to do genealogical research.

1692
01:25:16.950 --> 01:25:19.260
You know, back in the day it was like

1693
01:25:19.260 --> 01:25:20.940
going to the historical society

1694
01:25:20.940 --> 01:25:23.580
or getting involved in these different organisations.

1695
01:25:23.580 --> 01:25:27.570
But, so this is an Illustrator file,

1696
01:25:27.570 --> 01:25:31.860
essentially, the whole file that shows all of the names,

1697
01:25:31.860 --> 01:25:34.650
but also all of the unknown names.

1698
01:25:34.650 --> 01:25:36.660
So as I said, you know, it's,

1699
01:25:36.660 --> 01:25:39.353
we don't, aren't descended from just a few people.

1700
01:25:39.353 --> 01:25:41.460
You know, it's exponential.

1701
01:25:41.460 --> 01:25:45.510
So during the period of colonisation

1702
01:25:45.510 --> 01:25:47.760
that we're talking about,

1703
01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:49.500
this would be like all of those people.

1704
01:25:49.500 --> 01:25:53.280
So it's over 4,000 people.

1705
01:25:53.280 --> 01:25:55.980
And so, this is still in process

1706
01:25:55.980 --> 01:25:58.290
as I continue to do this research.

1707
01:25:58.290 --> 01:26:01.980
And every single day, I think because genealogy

1708
01:26:01.980 --> 01:26:05.133
has also emerged as science, and that's a shift,

1709
01:26:06.090 --> 01:26:09.570
you know, and through online,

1710
01:26:09.570 --> 01:26:14.570
you know, websites, like Ancestry.com or, you know,

1711
01:26:14.730 --> 01:26:18.000
other ones where people are getting their DNA tested

1712
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:19.113
and things like that.

1713
01:26:19.950 --> 01:26:24.480
And plus just the digitization of records

1714
01:26:24.480 --> 01:26:26.610
means that like every day that goes by,

1715
01:26:26.610 --> 01:26:29.160
there's more and more information that can be found,

1716
01:26:29.160 --> 01:26:32.940
and you might be surprised at what you can find

1717
01:26:32.940 --> 01:26:35.763
in obscure books and journals and things like that.

1718
01:26:36.870 --> 01:26:40.110
So there's a lot of research, and then I worked with

1719
01:26:40.110 --> 01:26:43.020
two different graphic designers to create this file.

1720
01:26:43.020 --> 01:26:45.000
And ultimately I'm hoping to animate this.

1721
01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:49.830
It's kind of like a, you know, visualisation project.

1722
01:26:49.830 --> 01:26:52.950
So each layer of this is able to be independently,

1723
01:26:52.950 --> 01:26:55.080
like the colours can be turned on and off,

1724
01:26:55.080 --> 01:26:58.050
and it'll become kind of a, you know,

1725
01:26:58.050 --> 01:27:01.590
a larger project like what I end up doing with it.

1726
01:27:01.590 --> 01:27:04.890
But essentially, if I were to print this document

1727
01:27:04.890 --> 01:27:09.450
where the smallest font is like a,

1728
01:27:09.450 --> 01:27:12.150
the furthest point, let's say, on the diagram

1729
01:27:12.150 --> 01:27:14.040
is like a six-point font,

1730
01:27:14.040 --> 01:27:16.860
it would have to be about 12 feet wide

1731
01:27:16.860 --> 01:27:21.860
to be readable as a physical map.

1732
01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:25.920
And so, I would say that,

1733
01:27:25.920 --> 01:27:29.070
you know, there were many hundreds of hours

1734
01:27:29.070 --> 01:27:34.070
that went into creating the diagram with graphic designers,

1735
01:27:34.890 --> 01:27:37.830
which of course completely breaks with the prompt

1736
01:27:37.830 --> 01:27:40.770
of the 1620 technology.

1737
01:27:40.770 --> 01:27:45.400
But it kind of became like the key to my, you know, my work

1738
01:27:46.830 --> 01:27:51.000
and I would say just many, you know, I don't know,

1739
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:52.830
thousands of hours before that

1740
01:27:52.830 --> 01:27:56.010
of the collective mass project

1741
01:27:56.010 --> 01:27:59.013
of people trying to figure this out.

1742
01:28:01.350 --> 01:28:03.417
So I dunno if that answers it or-

1743
01:28:03.417 --> 01:28:05.250
<v ->And actually that relates sort of</v>

1744
01:28:05.250 --> 01:28:07.230
to another question that we got,

1745
01:28:07.230 --> 01:28:09.360
which was about Jasleen's use of

1746
01:28:09.360 --> 01:28:13.680
the smoke-emitting technology in her two pieces,

1747
01:28:13.680 --> 01:28:18.680
which, and obviously there were no, you know,

1748
01:28:19.620 --> 01:28:24.620
moisture-based gaseous infusers in the early 17th century.

1749
01:28:25.710 --> 01:28:27.870
So, one thing that might be worth saying

1750
01:28:27.870 --> 01:28:29.580
is that I kind of left it up to each artist

1751
01:28:29.580 --> 01:28:32.970
to decide where they wanted to draw the boundaries

1752
01:28:32.970 --> 01:28:36.240
on that prompt of the period technology.

1753
01:28:36.240 --> 01:28:38.340
And it was maybe more important to me that

1754
01:28:39.390 --> 01:28:42.003
there was some sense of engagement with the prompts,

1755
01:28:43.050 --> 01:28:44.940
however that might be interpreted,

1756
01:28:44.940 --> 01:28:47.340
rather than that it have some element

1757
01:28:47.340 --> 01:28:49.350
of kind of unreasonable strictness.

1758
01:28:49.350 --> 01:28:52.230
So I wasn't really trying to draw a line around anything.

1759
01:28:52.230 --> 01:28:55.050
It was more trying to like offer a reason

1760
01:28:55.050 --> 01:28:56.970
to plant a new flag or a new centre

1761
01:28:56.970 --> 01:28:58.110
and sort of grow from there,

1762
01:28:58.110 --> 01:29:01.263
so that was more the logic of it, I suppose.

1763
01:29:03.300 --> 01:29:04.140
There's some other questions

1764
01:29:04.140 --> 01:29:05.730
about kind of curatorial process,

1765
01:29:05.730 --> 01:29:07.890
but first, because it's an important topic,

1766
01:29:07.890 --> 01:29:09.630
I thought Sonya and Elizabeth,

1767
01:29:09.630 --> 01:29:12.448
we could talk a little bit about the Wampanoag Bible,

1768
01:29:12.448 --> 01:29:13.770
because we got a couple of questions about that

1769
01:29:13.770 --> 01:29:17.880
from Deborah Santoro, who asked, "In the process,"

1770
01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:19.080
I'm not sure if you can read this, Sonya,

1771
01:29:19.080 --> 01:29:21.240
but I'll just read it out so everyone knows.

1772
01:29:21.240 --> 01:29:22.627
It says, "In the process of your research,

1773
01:29:22.627 --> 01:29:23.917
"did you have the opportunity to see

1774
01:29:23.917 --> 01:29:28.177
"the Algonquin Wôpanâak Bible in print rather than online

1775
01:29:28.177 --> 01:29:30.307
"or any of the original type?

1776
01:29:30.307 --> 01:29:31.987
"There were several First Nations printers

1777
01:29:31.987 --> 01:29:34.177
"who worked with John Eliot in particular.

1778
01:29:34.177 --> 01:29:39.177
"Lisa Brook mentions wowos in her book 'Our Beloved Kin'

1779
01:29:39.697 --> 01:29:41.527
"Did his uncredited presence in the work

1780
01:29:41.527 --> 01:29:44.460
"influence your thinking as you conceive of these pieces?"

1781
01:29:44.460 --> 01:29:47.580
And then Deborah also mentions that Elizabeth,

1782
01:29:47.580 --> 01:29:50.970
you might wanna say something about that Bible.

1783
01:29:50.970 --> 01:29:52.500
So if you have anything to add, please do.

1784
01:29:52.500 --> 01:29:55.310
But Sonya first, would you like to comment on that

1785
01:29:55.310 --> 01:29:57.540
in the actual physical object?
<v ->So.</v>

1786
01:29:57.540 --> 01:30:00.630
<v ->Yeah, so unfortunately I didn't have</v>

1787
01:30:00.630 --> 01:30:04.323
access to one of the Wôpanâak Bibles,

1788
01:30:06.090 --> 01:30:08.880
though I will say that Amherst College,

1789
01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:13.173
where I am an alum and also an employee,

1790
01:30:14.370 --> 01:30:17.600
they have a pretty great collection...

1791
01:30:19.770 --> 01:30:23.056
of texts, but for me to actually figure out

1792
01:30:23.056 --> 01:30:26.015
which part of the text I was gonna use,

1793
01:30:26.015 --> 01:30:28.740
I was searching it online, you know,

1794
01:30:28.740 --> 01:30:32.151
and then I actually have, like, I have...

1795
01:30:32.151 --> 01:30:33.060
(Glenn laughing)

1796
01:30:33.060 --> 01:30:33.893
Look at this book, right here,

1797
01:30:33.893 --> 01:30:36.930
like I didn't even leave my seat, it's right here.

1798
01:30:36.930 --> 01:30:40.527
I'm a big fan of, so this is "Our Beloved Kin," which,

1799
01:30:40.527 --> 01:30:42.390
and I don't have the questions up,

1800
01:30:42.390 --> 01:30:44.860
so I don't see who asked that question,

1801
01:30:44.860 --> 01:30:49.650
but yeah, if you haven't read works by either of,

1802
01:30:49.650 --> 01:30:51.180
any of the books by Lisa Brooks,

1803
01:30:51.180 --> 01:30:53.403
I highly, highly recommend them.

1804
01:30:54.719 --> 01:30:57.780
And I'm gonna turn it over to Elizabeth.

1805
01:30:57.780 --> 01:30:59.160
<v ->Yeah.</v>

1806
01:30:59.160 --> 01:31:00.510
Elizabeth, would you like to say anything

1807
01:31:00.510 --> 01:31:04.050
about the Wôpanâak Bible as an artefact and its importance?

1808
01:31:04.050 --> 01:31:05.160
<v ->Sure.</v>

1809
01:31:05.160 --> 01:31:07.620
Yeah, and I can also talk about my relationship

1810
01:31:07.620 --> 01:31:10.593
to that as well in that history.

1811
01:31:12.030 --> 01:31:15.120
I find the Bible is really fascinating.

1812
01:31:15.120 --> 01:31:18.960
They've been really, really useful for our language programme,

1813
01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:20.943
we have a language reclamation programme,

1814
01:31:21.900 --> 01:31:26.070
so rebuilding a lot and recapturing concepts

1815
01:31:26.070 --> 01:31:29.070
and philosophies that are somehow embedded

1816
01:31:29.070 --> 01:31:31.290
in this Christian document.

1817
01:31:31.290 --> 01:31:33.660
It's very interesting and very complicated.

1818
01:31:33.660 --> 01:31:36.660
I also have a look at some of these Bibles.

1819
01:31:36.660 --> 01:31:38.910
I've looked at the one at Pilgrim Hall,

1820
01:31:38.910 --> 01:31:42.090
I went to the Library Company in Philadelphia

1821
01:31:42.090 --> 01:31:44.880
for a Lenape exhibit that I was participating in.

1822
01:31:44.880 --> 01:31:48.037
I created a modest wampum belt for

1823
01:31:48.037 --> 01:31:50.517
"The Fall and the Rise of Conestoga."

1824
01:31:51.540 --> 01:31:55.260
And quite unexpectedly I found that they had

1825
01:31:55.260 --> 01:31:57.810
a Wôpanâak Bible in their collection

1826
01:31:57.810 --> 01:31:59.490
owned by one of the Pokanoke.

1827
01:31:59.490 --> 01:32:01.950
And I had known a woman from that family

1828
01:32:01.950 --> 01:32:04.860
when I was quite a bit younger who was Wampanoag,

1829
01:32:04.860 --> 01:32:06.690
so I recognised the surname,

1830
01:32:06.690 --> 01:32:09.930
and here's writings in the Bible from that family,

1831
01:32:09.930 --> 01:32:13.140
generations and generations and generations ago.

1832
01:32:13.140 --> 01:32:17.010
So, you know, I think with both of those objects,

1833
01:32:17.010 --> 01:32:21.990
I'm looking at marginalia, with another one that only had,

1834
01:32:21.990 --> 01:32:24.750
I only had digitised pages because a collector

1835
01:32:24.750 --> 01:32:27.690
sent it to a researcher who sent it to me.

1836
01:32:27.690 --> 01:32:30.570
That was a Hawasbee Bible from the island,

1837
01:32:30.570 --> 01:32:33.753
from Owasso, I think he was probably Bear Clan.

1838
01:32:35.280 --> 01:32:37.860
And I just, I find it so fascinating

1839
01:32:37.860 --> 01:32:39.690
there's genealogy in these Bibles,

1840
01:32:39.690 --> 01:32:41.850
because people are writing down names of their children

1841
01:32:41.850 --> 01:32:44.370
and they're writing down observations

1842
01:32:44.370 --> 01:32:47.790
and they're almost like using the written word

1843
01:32:47.790 --> 01:32:51.270
the way that we use wampum to record specific events,

1844
01:32:51.270 --> 01:32:54.930
but in a really minimalistic way.

1845
01:32:54.930 --> 01:32:56.670
It's really like a memory device,

1846
01:32:56.670 --> 01:32:58.230
because they know what they're talking about

1847
01:32:58.230 --> 01:33:01.840
and referencing, but I think as a descendant,

1848
01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:03.300
you know, you just sort of wonder like,

1849
01:33:03.300 --> 01:33:05.670
I wish I had a little more context there.

1850
01:33:05.670 --> 01:33:06.780
And, you know, you never know.

1851
01:33:06.780 --> 01:33:09.750
If you keep your eyes open as a researcher,

1852
01:33:09.750 --> 01:33:13.170
you may just find a source or speak to the right person

1853
01:33:13.170 --> 01:33:14.370
and have more of the story.

1854
01:33:14.370 --> 01:33:17.280
So I think they're really rich documents.

1855
01:33:17.280 --> 01:33:20.010
<v ->There's also something that I wanna just sort of connect</v>

1856
01:33:20.010 --> 01:33:23.687
between the Wôpanâak Bible,

1857
01:33:23.687 --> 01:33:26.490
'cause I don't read Wôpanâak, right?

1858
01:33:26.490 --> 01:33:31.490
But knowing what happens in translation,

1859
01:33:32.340 --> 01:33:34.470
I guess this also gets into the sort

1860
01:33:34.470 --> 01:33:37.350
of slightness of language when you were talking, Jeffrey,

1861
01:33:37.350 --> 01:33:38.190
and I know you were speaking

1862
01:33:38.190 --> 01:33:40.530
specifically about queer communities,

1863
01:33:40.530 --> 01:33:44.940
but like the way that language can hold and shift.

1864
01:33:44.940 --> 01:33:49.383
I mean, even all the Bibles that there are,

1865
01:33:50.910 --> 01:33:52.560
most of them are in translation,

1866
01:33:52.560 --> 01:33:55.320
which means that they're elevating some things,

1867
01:33:55.320 --> 01:33:57.150
using metaphors in some ways.

1868
01:33:57.150 --> 01:33:59.910
Even the same metaphor can mean something different

1869
01:33:59.910 --> 01:34:04.050
in a different language system, or in a different community,

1870
01:34:04.050 --> 01:34:07.950
and there's something very fascinating to me about that.

1871
01:34:07.950 --> 01:34:10.170
And even, Jeffrey, I'm also thinking about

1872
01:34:10.170 --> 01:34:12.270
what you were saying, and Elizabeth, what you were saying

1873
01:34:12.270 --> 01:34:15.810
about this idea of across time, like the same,

1874
01:34:15.810 --> 01:34:18.780
we know this about like the King James Version,

1875
01:34:18.780 --> 01:34:21.813
like what it might have meant 400 years ago, right,

1876
01:34:22.770 --> 01:34:24.780
and what it means right now

1877
01:34:24.780 --> 01:34:26.640
and even the interpretations of what

1878
01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:28.410
it means in different communities.

1879
01:34:28.410 --> 01:34:32.760
So that slippage of language I think is so fascinating.

1880
01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:35.060
And so that's why I was starting to talk about

1881
01:34:36.799 --> 01:34:39.450
Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, this brilliant Kenyan author

1882
01:34:39.450 --> 01:34:40.920
who wrote "Decolonising the Mind,"

1883
01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:42.540
because it's that same thing,

1884
01:34:42.540 --> 01:34:46.983
like does language hold power, right?

1885
01:34:48.120 --> 01:34:51.750
And who gets the final say in what the,

1886
01:34:51.750 --> 01:34:54.120
what it, what the language actually means?

1887
01:34:54.120 --> 01:34:55.050
<v ->Well I was just gonna ask,</v>

1888
01:34:55.050 --> 01:34:57.390
Elizabeth, if you wouldn't mind talking a little more

1889
01:34:57.390 --> 01:35:00.210
about the Wampanoag Language Reclamation Project.

1890
01:35:00.210 --> 01:35:05.210
That's a topic I connected to via Jessie Little Doe Baird,

1891
01:35:05.730 --> 01:35:07.830
who's done a lot of work I know in that area,

1892
01:35:07.830 --> 01:35:09.600
but people aren't aware of it.

1893
01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:11.220
It would be a great thing for them to learn about.

1894
01:35:11.220 --> 01:35:12.637
So could you just say a little bit about it?

1895
01:35:12.637 --> 01:35:15.660
<v ->You know, just as a little bit of context,</v>

1896
01:35:15.660 --> 01:35:18.513
about a hundred, 120 years ago,

1897
01:35:19.680 --> 01:35:22.050
community members in our tribe made a,

1898
01:35:22.050 --> 01:35:24.240
older community members, made a conscious effort

1899
01:35:24.240 --> 01:35:27.963
to stop handing down an intact language.

1900
01:35:29.190 --> 01:35:32.220
So people who were really instrumental in our community,

1901
01:35:32.220 --> 01:35:36.090
like Gladys Widdiss, a lot of other folks,

1902
01:35:36.090 --> 01:35:37.770
would talk about how when they were little

1903
01:35:37.770 --> 01:35:40.140
they'd hear their grandparents speaking Wampanoag,

1904
01:35:40.140 --> 01:35:42.060
and they would ask what they were saying,

1905
01:35:42.060 --> 01:35:44.310
and they said, "No, this isn't for you."

1906
01:35:44.310 --> 01:35:46.080
You have to live in the world as it is now,

1907
01:35:46.080 --> 01:35:47.220
you have to speak English.

1908
01:35:47.220 --> 01:35:50.730
And I think it was a really real strategy

1909
01:35:50.730 --> 01:35:52.740
to keep their children as safe as they could

1910
01:35:52.740 --> 01:35:56.580
because eugenics, of course, had reared its ugly head,

1911
01:35:56.580 --> 01:35:57.990
and there were terrible things happening.

1912
01:35:57.990 --> 01:36:02.010
I was reading about Malaga Island in Maine this morning,

1913
01:36:02.010 --> 01:36:03.900
and that's an example of eugenics,

1914
01:36:03.900 --> 01:36:08.490
and it's tragic, and you all can look it up today,

1915
01:36:08.490 --> 01:36:11.400
but that story unfortunately unfolded in a lot of places

1916
01:36:11.400 --> 01:36:14.040
and it made life much less safe, ironically,

1917
01:36:14.040 --> 01:36:16.620
in our homeland than than it needed to be.

1918
01:36:16.620 --> 01:36:19.020
And so the language kind of slept.

1919
01:36:19.020 --> 01:36:21.060
Certainly there are words that are in English

1920
01:36:21.060 --> 01:36:23.700
that were incorporated from Wampanoag centuries ago,

1921
01:36:23.700 --> 01:36:27.150
just from side-by-side living and working

1922
01:36:27.150 --> 01:36:30.360
and sharing knowledge and asking for help probably

1923
01:36:30.360 --> 01:36:32.040
and asking for food from tribal members

1924
01:36:32.040 --> 01:36:33.870
and all that good stuff.

1925
01:36:33.870 --> 01:36:36.660
But the intact language,

1926
01:36:36.660 --> 01:36:38.760
you know, it just stopped being something

1927
01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:43.672
that we had the luxury of being able to share and to have.

1928
01:36:43.672 --> 01:36:47.190
And so, I think gradually tribal members,

1929
01:36:47.190 --> 01:36:50.310
Helen Manning in my community who's since passed away,

1930
01:36:50.310 --> 01:36:53.220
Jessie Little Doe, other tribal members

1931
01:36:53.220 --> 01:36:56.790
were really, really interested in seeing what could be done

1932
01:36:56.790 --> 01:37:00.183
in terms of, okay, we have a lot,

1933
01:37:01.170 --> 01:37:03.030
what does it take to get this started?

1934
01:37:03.030 --> 01:37:08.030
And there was also a researcher at MIT who was a linguist.

1935
01:37:08.070 --> 01:37:12.390
And the beauty of our languages, in this region,

1936
01:37:12.390 --> 01:37:16.680
we're all Algonquian and linguistic cultural family members,

1937
01:37:16.680 --> 01:37:19.860
out to the Great Lakes, out to Wisconsin, Menominee,

1938
01:37:19.860 --> 01:37:22.440
everything linguistically and culturally related to us,

1939
01:37:22.440 --> 01:37:25.740
Cree, Powhatan down in Virginia.

1940
01:37:25.740 --> 01:37:28.410
So, we're all related languages,

1941
01:37:28.410 --> 01:37:31.833
and you can see how we spoke different versions.

1942
01:37:33.090 --> 01:37:38.090
You know, we had Y, N, R, or L dialects in our languages.

1943
01:37:39.330 --> 01:37:41.640
And so I'm forgetting, I think Eliot Wawaus

1944
01:37:41.640 --> 01:37:43.260
might have been Nipmuc,

1945
01:37:43.260 --> 01:37:45.630
so he might have been speaking an L dialect.

1946
01:37:45.630 --> 01:37:47.130
So you could look at the Bible

1947
01:37:47.130 --> 01:37:50.370
and you might be able to see if he was transcribing words,

1948
01:37:50.370 --> 01:37:52.260
he may have used them in his language.

1949
01:37:52.260 --> 01:37:53.280
Whereas in Wampanoag you'd have

1950
01:37:53.280 --> 01:37:54.810
a very, very, very similar word

1951
01:37:54.810 --> 01:37:57.600
because we're really close in Massachusetts,

1952
01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:59.253
but we wouldn't have the Ls.

1953
01:38:00.090 --> 01:38:02.190
And so there's just so much about it,

1954
01:38:02.190 --> 01:38:04.560
it's really just like really fascinating.

1955
01:38:04.560 --> 01:38:08.700
There's a Montessori school in Mashpee,

1956
01:38:08.700 --> 01:38:11.010
and a lot of the kids are soaking up the language,

1957
01:38:11.010 --> 01:38:14.100
'cause of course children learn terribly quickly.

1958
01:38:14.100 --> 01:38:16.590
But it's wonderful to hear, and I think it's very,

1959
01:38:16.590 --> 01:38:19.890
you know, hearing our language, hearing other tribal members

1960
01:38:19.890 --> 01:38:22.103
throughout New England speaking their language,

1961
01:38:23.550 --> 01:38:25.320
for me, it's really healing.

1962
01:38:25.320 --> 01:38:28.410
It really does something for me.

1963
01:38:28.410 --> 01:38:29.880
It's hard to describe.

1964
01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:31.110
Yeah.

1965
01:38:31.110 --> 01:38:33.667
<v ->Thank you so much, it's great to hear about that.</v>

1966
01:38:33.667 --> 01:38:35.880
And it's, I mean, to Jeffrey,

1967
01:38:35.880 --> 01:38:37.080
I was just thinking about what you were saying

1968
01:38:37.080 --> 01:38:38.610
about going to the past or the future

1969
01:38:38.610 --> 01:38:40.410
and would you dare wanna step into the future

1970
01:38:40.410 --> 01:38:42.180
because you might be so disappointed.

1971
01:38:42.180 --> 01:38:44.100
At least there's one story where it seems like

1972
01:38:44.100 --> 01:38:45.810
things are going the right direction.

1973
01:38:45.810 --> 01:38:47.160
So it's great to hear that.

1974
01:38:48.360 --> 01:38:49.350
We're almost out of time.

1975
01:38:49.350 --> 01:38:50.580
There were a couple of questions

1976
01:38:50.580 --> 01:38:52.890
just about curatorial process

1977
01:38:52.890 --> 01:38:55.320
and that might actually be a nice way

1978
01:38:55.320 --> 01:38:57.990
to kind of sneakily get to a conclusion here.

1979
01:38:57.990 --> 01:39:00.510
So someone asked just why I chose

1980
01:39:00.510 --> 01:39:02.100
the artists that were in the show.

1981
01:39:02.100 --> 01:39:04.170
And I certainly think as far as the folks

1982
01:39:04.170 --> 01:39:06.660
that we've heard from today, it sort of speaks for itself,

1983
01:39:06.660 --> 01:39:10.560
because the relationship that you developed to the project

1984
01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:12.450
was so rich in every case,

1985
01:39:12.450 --> 01:39:15.000
and I think did really intersect with a lot of

1986
01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:17.700
the creative trajectories that you all were on.

1987
01:39:17.700 --> 01:39:20.100
I will say that I was trying to,

1988
01:39:20.100 --> 01:39:22.620
in choosing the group of 10 along with colleagues

1989
01:39:22.620 --> 01:39:26.310
at the Fowler and the Box, we were trying to touch on

1990
01:39:26.310 --> 01:39:29.070
a lot of different kinds of diversity.

1991
01:39:29.070 --> 01:39:31.710
We think a lot about ethnic diversity now, of course,

1992
01:39:31.710 --> 01:39:33.720
but we were also thinking about geographic diversity

1993
01:39:33.720 --> 01:39:36.240
and then the range of materials and processes

1994
01:39:36.240 --> 01:39:37.620
that were included.

1995
01:39:37.620 --> 01:39:41.040
So that was why we wanted to include folks like David,

1996
01:39:41.040 --> 01:39:43.080
who really identifies as a metalsmith

1997
01:39:43.080 --> 01:39:45.630
or Michelle who really identifies as a potter.

1998
01:39:45.630 --> 01:39:48.300
So that was another thing that we were thinking about.

1999
01:39:48.300 --> 01:39:51.090
Very much wanted to make this a project that was led

2000
01:39:51.090 --> 01:39:55.020
equally by cultural ideas and material realities.

2001
01:39:55.020 --> 01:39:58.140
And I think that really was born out in the work.

2002
01:39:58.140 --> 01:40:00.480
And then there was also a question about

2003
01:40:00.480 --> 01:40:02.490
whether there was any aspect of the topic

2004
01:40:02.490 --> 01:40:04.440
or the history of references that we were

2005
01:40:04.440 --> 01:40:07.530
not able to incorporate into the exhibition

2006
01:40:07.530 --> 01:40:10.020
that we wanted to, but was not possible.

2007
01:40:10.020 --> 01:40:13.020
And I guess to that, I would, I just wanna say not really,

2008
01:40:13.020 --> 01:40:17.670
because, I keep thinking about your map, Allison.

2009
01:40:17.670 --> 01:40:20.170
Maybe a map is a better word than a tree actually.

2010
01:40:21.060 --> 01:40:24.750
It's like, you know, I think as a curator

2011
01:40:24.750 --> 01:40:26.790
the best experiences that you can have

2012
01:40:26.790 --> 01:40:29.430
is to almost like drop a pebble and see what happen,

2013
01:40:29.430 --> 01:40:31.830
like the, or a few pebbles and see how the ripples

2014
01:40:31.830 --> 01:40:36.300
all sort of overlap in these interpenetrating circles.

2015
01:40:36.300 --> 01:40:38.220
And I didn't really have any idea

2016
01:40:38.220 --> 01:40:40.570
what the show would turn into at all, you know,

2017
01:40:41.730 --> 01:40:44.040
much less probably than any other show I've worked on,

2018
01:40:44.040 --> 01:40:46.560
'cause there was no existing artwork.

2019
01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:47.910
It's a totally new topic for me,

2020
01:40:47.910 --> 01:40:51.120
a totally new topic for many of the artists involved,

2021
01:40:51.120 --> 01:40:53.130
where some of the artists have been living

2022
01:40:53.130 --> 01:40:55.730
with these subjects for their whole lives, you know?

2023
01:40:56.880 --> 01:40:58.890
And I just think it's really magical

2024
01:40:58.890 --> 01:41:01.220
what everybody has been able to create together

2025
01:41:01.220 --> 01:41:04.710
in a real spirit of communal collaboration

2026
01:41:04.710 --> 01:41:06.750
and sharing and openness and honesty.

2027
01:41:06.750 --> 01:41:08.820
It's been a really, really terrific experience.

2028
01:41:08.820 --> 01:41:11.400
So I wanna end by thanking you all,

2029
01:41:11.400 --> 01:41:12.900
not only for the past couple of hours,

2030
01:41:12.900 --> 01:41:15.060
but the past few years of work on this project.

2031
01:41:15.060 --> 01:41:17.340
It's been such an honour to have you all involved.

2032
01:41:17.340 --> 01:41:19.350
<v ->Yeah, thank you, Glenn.</v>

2033
01:41:19.350 --> 01:41:22.980
To reiterate your comments, we all didn't know

2034
01:41:22.980 --> 01:41:25.530
what this was gonna turn out to be either,

2035
01:41:25.530 --> 01:41:28.860
but took a really leap of blind faith.

2036
01:41:28.860 --> 01:41:31.560
'Cause we knew this was a story that needed

2037
01:41:31.560 --> 01:41:34.200
to be told in multiple perspectives,

2038
01:41:34.200 --> 01:41:38.100
and we were so fortunate that

2039
01:41:38.100 --> 01:41:41.250
you were on board with this project, to lead it.

2040
01:41:41.250 --> 01:41:45.780
So thank you for everything you've done

2041
01:41:45.780 --> 01:41:50.310
to make this a reality, and to the artists as well,

2042
01:41:50.310 --> 01:41:55.020
Allison, Sonya, Christien, Jeffrey, Elizabeth,

2043
01:41:55.020 --> 01:41:56.673
wonderful to see you again.

2044
01:41:57.662 --> 01:42:00.573
And the others who were not on the call today,

2045
01:42:01.590 --> 01:42:02.577
it couldn't have happened without you.

2046
01:42:02.577 --> 01:42:07.320
And I so respect the amount of thought and time

2047
01:42:07.320 --> 01:42:10.770
and care that you gave to this project

2048
01:42:10.770 --> 01:42:15.060
and how you interpreted what we were really trying to say.

2049
01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:16.590
It's mind-blowing to me,

2050
01:42:16.590 --> 01:42:21.240
and I couldn't be prouder of all of you and us as a team

2051
01:42:21.240 --> 01:42:24.090
working together in collaboration to make this happen.

2052
01:42:24.090 --> 01:42:25.920
So, thank you again.

2053
01:42:25.920 --> 01:42:28.290
Really, it's wonderful to see it up

2054
01:42:28.290 --> 01:42:31.350
and I hope we all get to celebrate in person

2055
01:42:31.350 --> 01:42:33.033
at some point soon,

2056
01:42:33.900 --> 01:42:36.360
because I think that would just really be fun.

2057
01:42:36.360 --> 01:42:39.900
And Ian, Ian Hutchinson is on the chat.

2058
01:42:39.900 --> 01:42:43.650
Ian is part of our partners from the UK

2059
01:42:43.650 --> 01:42:47.220
and he is chiming right in, so please be sure,

2060
01:42:47.220 --> 01:42:48.937
he said, "I completely agree with Denise.

2061
01:42:48.937 --> 01:42:51.937
"Thank you all so much, it's been a fantastic discussion.

2062
01:42:51.937 --> 01:42:53.647
"Very much appreciated.

2063
01:42:53.647 --> 01:42:55.110
"It's been a team effort."

2064
01:42:55.110 --> 01:42:56.403
So, thanks again.

2065
01:42:57.300 --> 01:42:58.133
Bye.